SCOTUS considers challenge to illinois reciprocity

It’s ok Don, I think I understood after I typed but wasn’t sure. It’s ok, Rahm Emanuel used to try to be funny and say Milwaukee was just a suburb of Chicago. Not very funny, I guess you had to be a Chicago politician to see any humor in his DA statement

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@TexasEskimo so first off I am not a lawyer. I am a concealed carry instructor and as such the state has given me the authority to discuss laws, including justified use of force, but because I am not a lawyer I can only tell you A) What the law says and B) give you my layman opinion. But none of what I say should be considered legal advice.

Can you use your legally carried hand gun to defend yourself? Sure, in some situations. Illinois law states that force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm may only be used against similar force. You can not escalate. I am paraphrasing. What Illinois law actually says is:

(720 ILCS 5/7-1) (from Ch. 38, par. 7-1)

Sec. 7-1. Use of force in defense of person. ``
(a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or another against such other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or another, or the commission of a forcible felony.

your question about remaining in your vehicle is a valid on, as Illinois law says, as a non resident, your handgun must remain in your vehicle. Let me tell you this. I know of two cases which apply to your question. Case one, a person with a concealed carry license was carrying in a posted gun free zone. Signs stating no guns do carry the weight of law in Illinois. An armed robber came in the gun free zone, a cell phone store, and this person with the concealed carry license shot. The shooting was justified and no charges were filed even though they were in violation of the gun free prohibition. The other case is of a person who did not have a concealed carry license, did not even have a firearm owner identification card (necessary for illinois residents to possess a firearm or ammunition). He was attacked on the street, drew his gun and shot. Again no charges were filed, even though technically he was committing a felony possessing a firearm. Both shootings were justified.

Now I could be wrong and I hope any lawyer reading this corrects me if so. I believe this is called an affirmative defense. “Yes I was wrong but I was right in doing so.” In other words, yes I broke the law but I did it for the right reasons.

And yes, many cops don’t know the law. I spoke to one officer and as I often do, I asked his thoughts on concealed carry. His answer was, “Well I don’t really know as I believe they are working out the particulars and such.” That’s pretty much a direct quote. The problem is licenses had already begun being issued and there were thousands of us walking the streets with guns. The training is abysmal, and truthfully you can not know all the laws. Even lawyers will practice on specific areas of law. The criminal code is thousands of pages. I was debating via email with a cook county (chicago) assistant states attorney once and had to correct him on the law. After providing links to the actual law, he conceded I was correct. I was beyond shocked in both of my above examples. These are people tasked with enforcing the law.

So in my layman opinion, back to your question about leaving the vehicle, If the shooting is justified it’s probably unlikely you will get charged for “violating a gun free zone” by removing the firearm from your vehicle, and even if you were charged with violating a gun free zone it’s only a misdemeanor and $150 fine for doing so. Illinois laws are pretty screwed up, but the justified use of force laws are somewhat fair.

Again I am not a lawyer and this is worth what you paid for it.

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@AlphaKoncepts Well… that was an awesome answer. You should be a lawyer, or at least a paid consultant. Thank you VERY much for the time you spent researching and answering my question.
To make things easier, and safer for me, I am in the future going to drive straight north and take a right turn in Des Moines and cross into WI through Dubuque. Avoid both states that violate my constitutional right to defend myself. Because MN and IL do not honor my TX permit. So if you look at the map attached I do have that small section of freedom to get home.
For those of you in MN and Il: look at the map and the company you keep. Don’t you feel a little out of touch with your neighbors? Get out and VOTE! Write to your legislators, organize, lobby, and educate. Or, you are MORE THAN welcome here in Texas. Safe place, lots of guns, tons of high paying jobs.
NOTE: No, I do not hate MN, spent 5 great years in Duluth. And no, I do not hate IL, spent 7 great years in Chicago. I would love to see both states free from tyranny.

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Which means Texas would revoke my LTC. No thank you Illinois.

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I have the same problem, have to travel through IL. Always makes me nervous.

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From my understanding of the statute. You can exit the vehicle to secure the firearm in the trunk if there is no suitable place within the drivers compartment.

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I believe so. I just never worried about it as I have a lock box inside the car so it was a non issue for me.

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I’m a nearly lifelong IL resident and people are making some outlandish arguments here about IL police. They are not unreasonable and fully understand that they are not spying on anyone and don’t carry a stopwatch to time anyone from the time they stop their car to the time they secure their gun. All they expect is reasonable, you don’t need to be Superman to run to your car trunk all they want is a reasonable expectation and more importantly they want to go home to their wife and kids like everyone else when there shift is over.

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A trunk would be a secure place according to the lawmakers who gave us this law

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Not sure I understand your point. So, law abiding gun owners who have no intention of firing on a police officer should have their gun locked away where they can’t get to it in time to possibly save their life from a bad guy? Sure, we all want to get home to our families. If police have the capacity to defend themselves with a firearm, then why should’t the average citizen have that same right? And don’t give me the fact that police are more likely to encounter gunfire. There are actually very few police who’ve had to use their firearm in the course of their daily duties. I know police officers who’ve gone their entire careers and never pulled a weapon. With over 200,000 uses of a firearm to protect themselves, my bet is the average citizen is more likely to have used a firearm in self defense.

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Good lord, I am saying police in Illinois are reasonable and don’t expect people to stop their automobile fly out of their car open their car trunks put their firearm in their car trunk, close the trunk in seconds and go get their lunch, dinners, or snacks. Come back to the car trunk, get their gun put in on their hip, get in their car and continue their journey.
If someone doesn’t act suspicious or do anything stupid they are not going to even care. Police aren’t even normally getting out of their patrol car. That’s what I’m saying.

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Except Cook county.

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Whatever you say

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Ah, then my apologies. I sensed sarcasm. I am sure you’re right. Most police are reasonable about such things. I am frustrated with IL law on this matter. Its my home sate; born and raised in Belleville, IL. I travel there from WI to see friends and just hate having to “park” my firearm during the trip and visit. Oh well…maybe SCOTUS will rule in favor of us, but I doubt it. The court tends to defer to states on such matters. Besides, although I am a dedicated 2A proponent, I am also fiercely states-rights oriented. I believe each state should make its on laws on such matters. The best we can hope for is that the court directs/encourages some standards be applied to reciprocity allowing it to become easier. Watching this one closely.

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@Raymond12 No sir Not one bit of Sarcasm. I have lived in IL my entire life except for about 17 3/4 years out of my 18 1/2 years of Army. I was separated from Ft Sheridan, IL which is Highwood, IL; About my last year in the Army. I live in Dupage County, I can see Chicago downtown from our living room. I live in Lisle, IL since 2006. I will stop here Sir because I don’t want to violate our community rules. But that is my story. 69 years born in Chicago. Love Chicago except I don’t want to go back. Last time I was in the city to see the old neighborhood and the house I grew up in I was shot by a Latin Kings lieutenant. Fought his gun away from him. Lost my left index finger but I saved my life. So that’s all I want to say I don’t want to violate community rules. Have a nice week Raymond.

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No matter how you look at it we are supposed to be the United States ! We are becoming more and more divided, I live in RI in which to get a ccw you have to jump through hoops and have to have live fire testing and then still have a reason to carry, then RI has absolutely no reciprocity with ANY other state so after getting a ccw from RI we still have to get something from surrounding states if we want to carry anywhere else! It should be CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY EVERYWHERE, if we are the United States or at a minimum your carry permit should be no different from your drivers license and be excepted in ALL states just like a cdl, motorcycle permit, chauffeurs license!!! The bottom line it’s all about the almighty dollar bills!!
In Massachusetts it $100 dollars per year for renewal and then others do not cost as much, yet I’ve driven across this country with my drivers license through many states without having to pay extra fees for extra licenses! 1 drivers license 1 fee ACCEPTANCE by ALL states !! There’s absolutely no reason why this can not be done with ccw’s other than total ignorance or arrogance! If someone has taken a firearms safety course and a live fire test to show proficiency with a firearm and has passed all requirements needed to receive their permit there should be absolutely no reason for denial from other states or extra fees added if someone already has a ccw from another state, county, town, or city!
If we are continuing to call our country United why aren’t we acting like it

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Well I am not in agreement with National Reciprocal. Unfortunately in my opinion the Federal government cannot administer anything properly. Can anyone name any programs that our Federal government does good? It’s to big, to bloated, to out of control and what happens if an anti-gun hating civil servant person in Federal government makes an anonymous “tip” to local police (Oh-Oh). It’s better to have different licenses. I just don’t see anything good and no silver clouds or magic fixes.

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Thinking of retiring in Texas. Hopefully National Reciprocity will pass when conservatives retake the house next year.

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