I’ve been watching Police Activity YT channel for a long time. This is a great source of lessons we can learn from. Good lessons and bad lessons.
This particular video (just few seconds of it) shows how easily safety rules can be forgotten during stressful situation.
This is a whole video, so you can watch it to have an idea what was going on:
but there is only few parts of the video I would like to focus on.
Look at this LEO… where is he pointing his muzzle and where is he shooting?
I guess nobody likes crossfire situation…
14:40 (different perspective)
At least I heard one good command. Threat was driving away, no guns needed; you can hear:
“Holster up, holster up”
I know sometimes it’s hard to follow all 4 rules… but more we talk about it, more we train it - less chances we miss any of those rules during violent, unpredictable and chaotic situation.
This is pretty good NRA version:
Know your target and what is beyond.
Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt. Equally important, be aware of the area beyond your target. This means observing your prospective area of fire before you shoot. Never fire in a direction in which there are people or any other potential for mishap. Think first. Shoot second.
Always be aware of target and its surroundings
After 100 shots they did actually jump on the PA and say “We Don’t Want To Hurt You”?
I wonder if we will see this on Active Self-protection on You Tube? This would make for a good training video! Good catch Jerzy!
I think ASP channel focuses on civilians only.
Police Activity channel is about LEOs only.
Anyway - I watch both and try learn from others’ mistakes.
That is the best way to learn, those who tend to learn for themselves live a hard life.
ASP focuses on civilians but shows LEO from time to time, with the disclaimer that he isn’t LE trained/expert on LE/etc the way speaks to civilian incidents. But he has done a number of OIS
One of the more interesting ASP videos to me, actually, was an OIS (officer involved shooting). It was a cop who had his cell phone in his hand when he engaged an imminent deadly threat. His phone was in his support side hand, and he did not drop the phone while using both hands to take the shots. This compromised his grip.
John (it’s John with an H right?) of ASP talked about carrying items in the strong hand because we instinctively know to drop the stuff that’s in the primary hand when reaching for something important with it…but not so with items in the supporting hand.
There is also a USCCA Protector Academy training video with simunitions in a parking garage where the guy is carrying a small shopping bag in his left hand, when he draws with his right hand and then shoots two hand grip…he never drops the bag.
This made me seriously reconsider my long held/told standard that you should carrying things in your of hand to not interfere with the strong hand drawing the gun.
We have definitely seen a lot of examples of people not dropping unneeded items including the recent beer guy thread.
Guess my only concern with carrying items in my strong hand is not being 100% sure my instincts will kick in and instantly drop the items. Guess I have to bring some grocery bags to my next range session to make sure I commit that to muscle memory. Sorry about all the broken eggs honey;)
When I was a cop in the Stone Age, the department taught us to shoot by giving us a box of ammo twice a year to qualify with at close range at an indoor facility, which only blind people could not do. I asked the training officer “What kind of ammo should I carry?” expecting to get a lecture on hollow points and 357 magnum v 38 special. The answer was a serious “Most policemen who are shot are shot with their own guns. Don’t carry anything that would trouble you to be shot with.”
As the years passed, that turned out to be absolutely true. Most of my co-workers who were shot were shot with their own guns often through their own negligence, or their guns being taken away from them. I never forgot that lesson.
Keep in mind, we’re dealing with government employees given dangerous tools to intervene in often emotionally charged events and to make nearly instantaneous legal judgements that lawyers and judges will scrutinize at their leisure. These employees are supervised, trained and monitored by other government employees and protected from liability by the doctrine of sovereign immunity and civil service rules layered on top of a police union. In many departments, the minimum educational qualifications is no more than GED or high school diploma and a clean criminal record.
Add to that a popular culture where action heros are those who run around amid explosions and car chases and violence is the depicted dispute resolution mechanism (a punch in the snot locker or shoot the cartoon bad guy). Society’s “zeros” are people who resolve disputes by talking.
What could possibly go wrong? Cops ignoring the firearm safety rules. Meh…
Thanks for sharing your experience. I have heard other former LEOs share similar experiences. The limited firearms training for many if not most LEOs doesn’t make much sense to me. I would want to be as prepared as possible if I was in the situations LEOs deal with daily, even if that meant getting the training on my own. Do you think the training situation has improved over the past several years with the more critical eye being turned on LEOs in the internet video age?
Since I am not covered by sovereign immunity I find videos like this to be useful reminders that I need to train and prepare the best I can in order to respond the best I can in stressful situations like these.
I believe it has gotten better. I took a class from Sig Sauer that was taught by several LEOs and ex-LEOs with more recent experience than mine, including the firearms trainer for the department I was with many, many years ago. They were light years beyond what I experienced.
That said, the level of training is a function of department size, locale, budget and political commitment. And, a poor employee base does not change absent an agency that’s willing and able to fire crummy, incompetent employees. In my shift, we had an officer we nicknamed “Peepers” because he had extremely poor eyesight and was always wrecking cruisers. Things also change very, very slowly in government circles. For example, the armory at the department I worked at in the 1970s included several lever guns purchased in the early 1900s and Tommy guns purchased in the 1920s.
That’s why they should have neutralized him while he was sitting still refusing commands from that stupid PA system. This maggot could have gotten away AGAIN to hurt or kill innocent people. They should have told him you have 5 seconds to exit that vehicle and lay on the ground, otherwise you will be meeting Jesus momentarily! And then do just that if he refuses! He was still able to drive away after they riddled his vehicle with bullets! The officer who was in charge was more in the way than being any help!
In the second picture, I think you might have circled the wrong guy but judging things like that from a picture is hard. I would have circled the far right cop. He looks to be pointing his duty weapon at the cop you circled.
I haven’t watched the video but I am of the belief in situations like this, the Bonny and Clyde response is best course of action.
It is the same guy. You need to see the video. I think there is even footage from his body cam and you can clearly see him shooting and the fleeing car, and you now than other Police cars and LEOs are behind this car.
That was some crazy sh1t in the video. Cops did a good job.
Talking about LEOs training. It’s hard to blame them for lack of training. They should have a guaranteed practice time. But I know there is not enough money for this.
But looking at this from other perspective. If you are responsible for others’ safety, you carry lethal weapon on daily basis and you know that there are big chances you need to use it… are you gonna sit and do nothing about your training? Because your supervisors don’t give the training to you?
That’s what scares me.
I really respect all the LEOs, but sometimes they need to take care about this stuff by themselves. Invest the time, invest the money to learn, train, practice. To be better shooter, safer and really responsible for every action. They need to remember that small mistake made can cause somebody’s life.
I know… this sounds like a passion… but shouldn’t your work be your passion?
I’ve been meeting and practicing with local LEOs for some time and really appreciated they effort given to their extra practice on the Ranges. Some of them looked like shooter newbies, some were really good, just needed extra time to not get rusty. And I like it. They know what does it mean to carry pistol and they know they will probably use it sooner or later.
Last weekend I took a class in TN and one of the students was a cop from KY. He drove over 30 minutes to take the class. I was really surprised watching him doing all the drills. He was like a ninja, sneaking between barricades, engaging targets and keeping muzzle and trigger discipline.
I asked him why he took the class if he was already so good. He told me - job and responsibility. He needed to be ready to properly react to any violent actions without jeopardizing somebody’s safety.
I think the job found him - the perfect candidate. He found his perfect job and prepared himself to do his job the best way he could. The man like him is a guiding light for every responsible firearm carrier.
Just putting this out there…the big chances to need to use the firearm may not be as big as you think. Last I knew, most peace officers literally went their whole career without discharging their firearm in the line of duty
Agreed… but comparing Peace Officers to civilians - who’s got a higher probability to draw the pistol?
I’m also hoping to never draw my firearm and point it to another human being. But I’m doing everything I can to avoid situation I would have to draw the firearm. Peace Officers don’t have this comfort. They may be put into the situation that they have to draw, because they can’t avoid what I can.
Police officer higher probability for sure.
But even then most minimal of peace officer standards are higher, I think, than almost all (if not all) concealed carry requirements.
I think the majority of carriers in my county, for example, would fail my county’s quarterly qual requirement. At the state level, I’d take the under on over/under half of licensed carriers being able to pass the state shooting qual
Times have changed. Those officers, and civilians, didn’t face things like the entitled woke left, BLM, ANTIFA, etc. They had the riots in the 60s but they pale to the things officers are faced with today. Heck you can’t even arrest a thug methhead for committing a crime without getting blamed and put in prison for killing him when he died of his meth addiction.