Different grip, feel. Being wound up & not thinking I can see it happening. Wheather that’s the case I’m not sure.
It does happen, this is absolutely not the first time it has happened.
This day and age I see most cops wearing gloves (good idea even before Covid), which negates the ability to feel texture differences.
In the heat of the moment, when that adrenaline spikes, weight/bulk differences aren’t going to be noticed.
IMO this was more of a training issue than anything. Not enough time spent drawing the tazer and making deliberate practice to differentiate the two.
Another reason why the “defund the police” movement is stupid beyond all reasoning. Loss of income for departments means training is the first thing to get cut.
Yeah, so I gave this a thumbs up, but the meaning behind it is a thumbs DOWN on defunding the police. In the top ten of the most stupid things I’ve ever seen.
The media says and writes what they assumed happened because they have not walked in a police officers shoes. But I agree that is why defunding the police is stupid. They can use the money for training. Most people in the media are Monday morning quarterbacks and start writing and giving there opinions before the facts are in. Yes I also believe it could’ve been a training issue. When you are in a stressful situation or event sometimes you have no time to think and just react. It’s sad what happened to both the victim and the officer, NOBODY WINS.
To err is human. Of course anybody can screw up even with tons of training. That’s why you need to train. I’ve taken medication for many years. Once in a while someone distracts me and I get mixed up. Nothing lethal but it does impact my condition.
I question people that overly push “muscle memory”. Sure but you still need to think about what your doing so you don’t take out an innocent person. Just because this guy resisted doesn’t mean he deserved death.
I’m very pro police, patriotic and conservative but this police officer is getting off way to easy. She should be charged with murder and tried. Sure it may be reduced to manslaughter but no one knows with absolute certainty that she didn’t do this on purpose. People do wild crazy instant decisions making at times. How do you prove it either way? Not sure. But LEO should be held at a higher responsibility than the general public otherwise you end up with police corruption.
I don’t think anyone here is trying to make excuses for the bad guy. But we, as a concealed carry community, are very cognizant of when it’s acceptable to use lethal force.
Now, there’s a real question about whether or not the officer intended to use lethal force. Many activists on the streets and in the press made up their mind the moment they heard someone had been shot. But whether or not the subject “deserved to die” is not a decision we get to make based on his moral character or past mistakes.
This is a debate about how much force police can use and when they can use them. If some states or police departments want to take away the ability to use lethal force, they can do that. Just be aware that there are those who will simply flee, knowing the police can’t shoot or pursue at high speeds.
It would be interesting to see this guys high school report cards and listen to his teachers reveal what he was like - probably a nightmare student. I bet his parents are truly crappy. This kid was definitely going down the wrong path. He was a POS to most of us. But before justifying shooting we need to think hard.
I used to think the police were authorized to shoot fleeing suspects. I learned later otherwise. Just because the POS sort of deserved it doesn’t mean we should just lift the restrictions on it. I think she is probably innocent of intent but guilty of incompetence. Negligent discharge, not accident. We would be crucified by the legal system if we did that. Our attitudes toward this disposable hood is beside the point. .
In recent years, they have shot and killed EMTs studying to become RNs, retired military officers who called 911 and defended their own homes while standing in their own homes waiting for help to arrive, and each other. They have killed a number of men in vehicles for “furtive movements” they were verbally ordered to make (at least by inference of logic). They’ve strangled men to death who were already in hand cuffs. They’ve done it all on video and/or admitted to it in official documents. They’ve done it from coast to coast.
And we still don’t see this as a systemic problem?
P.S. And notice I did NOT say anything about ethnicity? I’ve watched videos of them murdering white, black, and brown men and women; old and young; from sea to shining sea. It isn’t about racism. It IS about the dark place in all our souls where angels fear to tread. It is about the intersection of what we mean when we say “training,” and about judgment, self-restraint, fear, ego, and personal responsibility in the real world where none of this is a game. FYI, when I started driving, my WASP dad had “the talk” with me…his WASP son. But our last name isn’t Biden.
Many, many people do. I’m just waiting for someone to identify the flaws in the “system” and suggest meaningful improvements. With respect to certain members of Congress, the wholesale elimination of law enforcement is not the solution.
I don’t think any of us are saying the young man deserved to die.
What I am trying to express is politicians and the media are only focused on the Police mistakes - which were terrible - and ignoring the equally important teaching opportunities regarding resisting arrest, rioting, looting, and burning down the town. These tragedies are going to continue to play out until the seeds are planted that resisting arrest, rioting, looting, and burning down the town is not the solution.
It happened a few years ago in Madera Co., California
A female officer, too, but that shouldn’t mean anything.
She wasn’t charged, btw.
Consider he had three outstanding warrants, one a weapons charge, and he was putting up a fight to get into his car. The officer probably thought she was doing the best thing by going with non-deadly force(Tazer)
No, it is not. I couldn’t agree more.
I just learned from the horse’s mouth that the Florida Highway Patrol is 1700 officers short-staffed. Fully funded and aggressively recruiting in a state with record budget surpluses in recent years. The police departments and sheriffs’ offices around here are in no better shape. I know several retired LEOs who are now back to work full time because they were begged to come out of retirement and are being paid their pensions and a full salary. They cannot hire people with criminal records (even juvenile), a history of chemical dependency, high school dropouts, or mental disorders. In LE, that’s like suggesting they hire blind people or those confined to wheelchairs. And unless these minimum standards are eliminated, we will never have enough cops in America again. Our young adults are horribly dysfunctional and deficient. The military has the same problem, and it has been reported broadly in national media that this is a national security problem. But here we are!
Across the street, a new FHP probationary trooper just moved out of a rental home he and his paramedic wife rented until their probationary periods were over. In the past year, he went through 3 patrol units, destroyed the lawn due to neglect and ripped out all the plumbing in both bathrooms before moving out…because he was promoted and relocated 2 counties to the North. This is the quality of today’s LEOs.
That’s a spiritual problem, a leadership problem, and a self-inflicted social disaster of the type Usama bin Laden accused us of and accurately predicted about 25 years ago. The truth hurts! These consequences of our sin are just beginning to overtake us. It will get much, much worse.
There’s “the problem.” Welcome to the wild, wild West redux! We are on our own.
This is a nationwide issue. Police departments recruit from other police departments because they can’t fill their ranks. And the way police have been treated in the last 4-6 years, it’s no wonder why qualified candidates are choosing different careers.
Those wait times we keep talking about when you need the police? They’re about to get longer. Ammo up.
I do believe this was a training mistake, and not intentional actions by the officers. I have watched the body cam video (yes, on the news) and if you listen closely, you can hear her warn him he is going to be tasered, then as she reaches in with her weapon and fires, she says “taser, taser, taser”. I am not even relying on the “closed captioning” they put on the video, either. More specific training drawing and becoming familiar/aware of the differences between the two weapons are clearly needed across all police departments to reduce the risk of this happening again. Just my opinion.
Why ALL departments? Has this happened tens of thousands more times that you are aware of and I am not? I’m aware of about 3, and only this one resulted in a fatal shooting. Far more often, I’ve seen/heard about cops getting hurt or killed because of their poor judgment in the use of a TASER. Do you even know what LE training the mfg provides to LE agencies? What training is considered “best practices” or a “minimum standard” for qualifying a LEO to carry a TASER in your own community, much less everywhere in America?
According to press and court filings reviewed by the Star Tribune, similar shootings have happened at
least 11 times nationwide since 1999 — the year when Taser introduced the handgun-shaped Advanced Taser M-26. Earlier Tasers were shaped more like a TV remote control, and an early case hinged on the change.
In three cases that did prove fatal — Everardo Torres in Madera, Calif., in 2002; Oscar Grant III in Oakland, Calif., in 2009; and Eric Courtney Harris in Tulsa, Okla., in 2015 — the officers involved said they had intended to use their Taser, not their service weapon.
The OBVIOUS answer is “Yes!” as this is not the first time tht this has happened. That’s why most PD and SOs (although not all) require you to carry your Taser on your support side. It clearly didn’t work this time though.
Under the Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, a police officer may use deadly force to prevent the escape of a fleeing suspect only if the officer has a good-faith belief that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others.
Want to say it’s a terrible thing that happened. The officer drew what she claims she thought was a taser for a reason. Can’t help but think if actions would have been different, the outcome would have been more favorable all around.