Obviously, this officer did not fear for her life, else she would not have been so shocked, and stopped at the first round.
It sounds like you would have pumped that boy so full of lead, turned him into a pencil, and immediately clammed up.
In either case, since she immediately admitted her negligent discharge/ homicide, all the evidence was right there for the other officers to sadly arrest her and cart her off to jail to await trial.
A very insightful observation. Thatās why I believe they should have charged her with 2nd degree murder. The defense has to show reasonable doubt. Then it drops to manslaughter. If she really did not mean to I feel bad for her.
I donāt blame the people for not taking a job that is underpaid and you can never be successful at. No matter the situation, your actions are wrong. keep your head down and consider living a condition orange lifestyle (for a while), especially us in the 7 county metro. Unconfirmed promise to spread across the metro. Stay safe, good luck.
Most of the LEOs around here make $70-130k per year with full benefits. Thatās a very good living for someone with their qualifications working a blue collar job. FYI, my wife is a retired LEO and I did the job for awhile in the 1980s. 2 of my best friends are LEOs. And I have always lived my life in condition orange. Occupational hazard.
@BRUCE26 thanks. I had no idea there were that many, but it is still a tiny proportion of use of force incidents nationwide. Seems to me TASER should probably change the device config. I know that they changed to the pistol-style device to make it easier/faster for cops to learn to use. Time is money, you know! Gotta be efficient ā ruthlessly efficient. Canāt waste taxpayer $$$. The TASER isnāt my thing at all. Iāve never been a fanā¦from a LE/self-defense perspectiveā¦of ditching night sticks for pepper spray and TASERs.
Ken38,
From your response to me I can only figure either you didnāt completely read everything I typed, OR you are LOOKING for an arguement/debate, which I am not going to engage in. I will only reiterate and clarify my statementā¦
As I explained MY OPINION on this subject, I feel training in ALL departments could reduce the risk of these types of events from happening in the future. This event, and the very few others prior, clearly show there is a need for more training across the board, with some focus on drawing and being aware of the differences between weapons in stressful, adrenaline pumping situations.
I PERSONALLY FEEL that LEO should have extensive training, with more frequent ārefresherā training. I do not understand why anyone would have a problem with that. And no, I do not know what specific training LEO already goes through, but I do know what ATF does. As a private citizen, I donāt feel I need to know what their training specifics are, as I am not planning on taking action against them. Not saying you are, or anyone, but I just donāt see the need to know.
The only reason I even commented in the first place is because I didnāt see/read anyone bringing up the LEOās words and reaction to the incident. IMO, if a topic or incident is going to be discussed and debated, then every aspect of it needs to be addressed, not just a few select points.
Sorry you may not agree with my views and opinions, but that is just one area that makes our country great, the ability to have different views and opinions and be able to express them!!
@Paula9 I just asked you to explain why you believe a universal mandate is necessary and told you a bit about my own perspective. You knowā¦more opportunity for you to express your opinion in a bit more detail? It used to be called a conversation in educated adult circles. I guess not so anymore, huh?
What precedes the āuse of forceā?
Non-compliance by the person of interest. So, the point is, is it wise to argue with the officer?
Remember the Oscar Grant incident, January 2009, in Oakland, CA? The same point was raised, that Johannes Mehserle thought he was drawing his taser. There was a lot of contention about this at that time as well. However, Mehserle was only on the job for less than two years, so hardly a veteran.
So Ken, having the background and a Mrs retired, is it possible? Honestly, would it be possible?When I went to the academy it was the tv remote tasers. I have had zero experience as a leo let alone the new pistol style.
This sounds snide, but is not. It is a sincere question from someone with credible perspective. Canāt seem to word it otherwise.
It is possible - extremely rare and definitely proof of incompetence, butā¦sadlyā¦possible.
My 2 cents? This is an intentional design flaw of the device (done for ease/cost of training) compounded by inadequate training. Unfortunately, regarding less-than-lethal combat for LEOs, that is a common combination. Their equipment options suck and the training and standards are even worse. I wish I could ādress that upā a bit, too. But I canāt and be honest about this subject. Donāt forget: this woman was a 26 year veteran TRAINING OFFICER who was supervising a rookie on the street when this happened. We also do not know whether or not she had any substances known to impair judgment or disturb motor skills in her blood or if she had a medical condition that might reduce her physical senses (neurological disorder/injury). All of that will come later.
P.S. My wife was horrified when she watched the video and immediately pointed out 2 HUGE mistakes the ātraining officerā made before she killed this actively resisting subject with multiple warrants for his arrest, presumably by mistake. This IS my wifeās previous specialty. She was a FLETC certified instructor for Less-than-lethal weapons/tactics and detainee operationsā¦among several other subjects. She held every TASER and OC cert recognized by the DoD and fed agencies and taught these classes to thousands of troops and civilian cops. So she is the actual expert in the family regarding TASERs in LE.
Thanks for the insight. This is something that has not crossed my mind. I appreciate the the perspective.
Craig
Flew fighters for 21 years. Ejection seats of various types had activation handles located in different places, depending what aircraft you flew - F-4, F-15, F-16, etc. Had a friend with 3000+ hours of flight time - including combat - pull his seat separation handles instead of the ejection handles when one of his engines in an F-4 caught fire. If he would have ejected after that, he wouldnāt have had any parachute. Fortunately, when the seat didnāt go, he realized his āerrorā, managed to put out the fire and land safely.
Adrenaline does strange things.
@David352 What happens to a military officer who makes a series of judgment errors that gets people in his care needlessly killed?
Absolutely. You get tunnel vision. Adrenaline pumping. Unfortunately, it happens.
I believe your comments in this discussion here are a wise observation of our days. The lawlessness (and all that it produces) has been promoted by governing officials. We are clearly seeing this evil before our eyes.
The small amount of video I watched on the topic leaves me wondering about what is the truth. It appeared to me there was more than one officer on the scene dealing with the situation.
From a moral responsibility viewpoint, I see the consequences of lawlessness being played out on every turn.
Depends on whether or not it makes headlines.
Night sticks were replaced with collapsible batons not tasers and pepper spray. The design of night sticks themselves provided a large leverage advantage that could result in broken bones, including skulls, as well as a mechanical advantage when used to choke. Those all resulted in excessive force law suits.
Most departments now require yearly recerts in PPCT (a misnomer as the training involves way more than pressure point control tactics) which covers use of collapsible batons.
As an instructor in PPCT i do wish it was taken a little more seriously by LEOs.
That all being said, the number one issue IS a training issue. The vast majority of officers entering the field have never been in a hand to hand fight much less been punched in the face. This puts them in the distinct disadvantage of not actually knowing how they/how to respond to adrenaline bursts.
Iām not saying we need to start hazing rookie cops, but LEO gyms used to have boxing rings for a reasonā¦might be time to bring them back.
I think handguns should be replaced by high pressure water pistols.
Stipulated.