Punishing China

After all the damage they’ve caused I’m pretty sure they should have to pay all the worlds debt.

1 Like

I think @Dawn is right–the ‘them’ we want to punish is their leadership.
@BubbaBear917–we can’t just ‘bring the jobs’ back–we cannot compete with a country that pays their workers pennies on the dollar.
The people making electronics, etc., make more than the minimum wage McDonalds worker (who think that flipping burgers is worth $15/hour). We’ll never be competitive globally with this disparity of workers’ wages.
I doubt American companies will build things that can’t compete globally from a pricing perspective. Granted, we are a large consumer market, but not big enough to be able to blunt the negative impact industrial espionage and patent infringement by the Chinese has had on the global markets.
Their government and their policies have to go. @Alexander8 is right on–they have done so much damage to patents and product reputations with fake goods, and the pollution they dump–they (their leadership) are a blight on the planet.

2 Likes

You don’t need to punish anyone. Just reasonable measures in consideration of well-being of our national, economic and public health security. Kudos to Donald Trump for being a champion of this cause:

What I want to see next, is that Apple, HP, Dell, and so on are banned from selling computers and components sourced from China in this country. They are welcome to continue selling those to Europeans, Russians, Australians - whoever does not mind spyware showed into their house and office.

3 Likes

100% agree. We should be able to cut any country off economically at any time and still be comfortably functional imo.

I don’t know much about China, BUT I know their leader banned Winnie the Pooh because of a meme…

3 Likes

The company I work for deals with China on a daily basis. Not everything coming out of China is cheaply made (cheaply as in poorly). We as a company get some of our components from China that are less expensive and better quality than what we can buy in the US.

We changed suppliers when we found a part which was costing us (my company) over 50K each and had to be replaced every 18 to 24 months (part made by a US company in the US) with the same part made by a China company for about 38K (with shipping costs) and lasted 5 to 8 years before needing replacement.

Before you tell me it is the cheap sweatshop type labor dont. These are parts which require very skilled labor to manufacture and the workers are making much higher than the average wage in China. They still have to meet very strict requirements set by not only our FDA but the China FDA which in some cases (when it comes to medical equipment) can be more stringent than ours.

Many of you may not know but over 65% of the rare metals and a large amount of the raw materials for drugs (I do not know this percentage for drugs) are only found in abundance in China.

We need to stop playing the blame game and try to punish a country as a whole for what their government (who they did not elect) may or may not have done.

Stepping off and putting the soapbox away.

Don

4 Likes

You have a right to your opinion.

3 Likes

I honestly understand what you are saying. This, like most issues, is a complex issue.

BUT if China is in a conjoint agreement with us, but fails to uphold their end of the bargain (down playing corona, hoarding medical supplies (which have been largely funded by the US), had forewarning about corona but shut the man up who tried to warn them, tried to blame the US for spreading the disease, and potentially lied about their numbers…) At what point do we do something? The biggest slap on the hand would be to cut them off financially. Yes that would effect innocent civilians jobs in China, many businesses here could suffer, prices could go up, BUT we could also work to become less dependent. If aw war happens, or even just China goes to a full out war with another country, that could effect many people’s medications here.

Most businesses do use China for cheap labor. We have labor laws they don’t have, businesses want to cut corners and China is cheap and they can make a product that works.

I already didn’t like China before this… I would never say we should act out in war, but cutting them off, even if it’s completely off, economically, seems reasonable to me.

It’s not just about “punishing”. It’s about not getting bullied ourselves by a corrupt government that shouldn’t have any leverage against us at all.

4 Likes

This. Exactly this.

5 Likes

Absolutely right. We should not be bullied we should be mostly self dependent

2 Likes

I am not sure where some of these facts people are talking about are coming from.

Please tell me they are not coming from the same government officials we were saying were corrupt last month.

Please tell me we are not getting this information from the same news sources that last month we were saying were lying to us and not giving us the facts.

I do not disagree with those who are saying we should be more independent as a nation. I am not disagreeing with those saying other governments are corrupt.

What I would like to say is, before we start imposing our ourselves on other nations, how about we fix the short comings we have at home first.

Lets fix the corruption in our government.
Lets fix our homeless and poverty problems.
Lets return to being a great nation which takes care of its own BEFORE we to do anything else.

My earlier post was meant to get people thinking and to share opinions, I think it did that.

Thank you all for taking the high road and not condemning me for my statements. I was trying to present facts I am aware of and present them for discussion as well as food for thought.

Stay safe and lets continue to fight the good fight.

Don

1 Like

Why do people lose morals as they gain power?
Why does American public have insatiable appetite for drugs?

What you are saying is “lets fix the human nature”. This problem is waaaay beyond the scope of politics.

3 Likes

I cannot help but notice that 38K is roughly 50K with 20% discount, the alleged degree of currency manipulation by the Chinese :slight_smile: There is nothing wrong with bottom line, in fact it should be expected that any businessman that doesn’t watch the bottom line and buys the 50K component when a better 38K component is available will be in hot water. This is where the Government needs to step in and have meaningful import tariffs!

On the other hand, we just took $2T out of the economy. Does it add to the 38K price tag? You bet it does! How about illness in the workforce or the family, or Heavens forbid, death? Where does that take the price tag?

Can China block your company from buying the component, as retaliatory measure? It is not beyond believable. How about requiring that your company follows certain policies as condition for doing business with a Chinese counterpart, which policies you will find morally reprehensible or illegal in the US? Happened before. How about you discover a nasty little surprise in a Chinese component(think Huawei spyware), would you sweep it under the rug and continue to sell to the American people?

I think we need to look in the matters deeper, and see beyond what’s printed on the price tag.

Do you believe one word that’s coming out of Chinese government official mouths?

Rare earths are abundant in the US as well Wyoming Mining Association: Rare Earths Mining in Wyoming . The problem is environmental impact and EPA regulations make their mining super expensive, compared to China, where they don’t care if they poison land, waters, air and living creatures. At this time we are at China’s mercy for Hi-Tech equipment for this reason. Not a place to be!

There is no crime that a Communist Government will not perpetrate or whitewash against their own people. Any fallout from economic and political divestment from China is on them.

3 Likes

I see what you’re saying, but shouldn’t that go for every government and private company as well?

This is a very slippery slope we’re talking about.

Thank you all for being passionate AND respectful in this conversation.

3 Likes

The problem is so very clear if you look through honest eyes…The problem is that China has figured out our weakness and knows it can be exploited and/or abused. The reason we put up with Chinas’ antics comes from a greater fear, a fear of empowering a people who we have taken from, what you ask?..the very land we call America. We would rather deal with china, pay extra to import merchandise from the other side of the world when in reality we can have the same products made in this hemisphere and also do away with higher import costs, but we wouldn’t dare. Why would we empower Mexico and/or any other part of Latin America, for once they are economically in position, the fear is they would challenge us for this very land. So we keep our foot on their throat and choke them out, year after year, decade after decade, and so on. Why do you think Immigration is such big priority for some? it is the fear of infiltration, the gaining of voters of latin decent, a super “voting block”. Latino voters that could vote Latinos into power, which would surely then allow for a new trade agreement, that would then further empower this side of the hemisphere with all the Americas eventually coming together as one. Although this may seem far fetched, you can safely bet the “elite” lose much sleep over this, for them there is no greater fear. And since China now knows and understands this, they feel they have the upper hand. They know we are sort of stuck in this awful marriage with them, and they are juicing it for what it’s worth. They see the inevitable approaching fast, as do the “elite” and they are all scrambling.

                                                                                                                   Ben Blanc
1 Like

Frankly, I don’t see it. It would mean formation of a 2nd EU, and you see how well this lumbering bureaucracy went. Just look at the map - there are 2 giants, US and Brasil (Canada has lots of territory, but 2X the population of Sao Paulo). If you force the Western hemisphere into a single supernational structure, US and Brasil will dominate naturally, and everyone else be trampled. So, it is best to have sovereignty for every country, big and small, and loose alliances based on mutual respect, trade and defence.

4 Likes

Just my opinion, I could be wrong…but yeah, as for the topic, China is flagrant in its actions and is not worried about being “punished” by us i guess is my point and/or opinion.

I think they might actually be getting a good laugh out of whenever we act like we’re going to do “something”…They’ve been calling our bluff for years

2 Likes

Sadly, you may be right. But like they say, pride comes before the fall.
I am hopeful that most Americans will be able to overcome greed and selfishness. Goes toward you earlier post as well.

2 Likes

Pride may have played a role once upon a time, but not anymore, which is clearly evident in Chinas’ own actions, like continuing to put led and other toxic chemicals in products designated for America for years after being “warned” by us, and like continuing unsanitary and inhumane practices in agriculture and food processing fields regardless how many times we raise concern, just to name just a couple.
Like i said, once upon a time they may have had the pride and/or courtesy to oblige…but now that they know they hold the ace of spades, well it’s more of a take it or leave it attitude with them knowing we will most likely take it :pensive:

1 Like

We also cant overlook the economic and geopolitical thumping President Trump has laid on China. Very real and way overdue.

Some think this virus is no accident. I dont know what to believe. If you wanted to knock the US down in its fundamental power base, this virus was a great way to do it. Great way to maybe get rid of President Trump too.

3 Likes

So the trend in this thread is that we are going to punish China by not buying inexpensive goods from them and by bringing ‘home’ the manufacture of critical goods.

Has anyone realized that in recent times the entire ‘consumer’ world has prostituted themselves to China with the false dream of getting rich by being the first ones in line when they open their billions strong markets to the world (because open markets are what communism is all about right)…

So let’s play this out…

US: we need a cheap place to make some things. How about we do it in China they will work all day for a couple of fish heads and a bowl of rice… Hey since we are paying you with currency and you have a little left after you buy your fish heads how about we sell you some thing like refrigerators, ag equipment and maybe even some cars…

THEM: you want to sell your goods in my overpopulated communist country… sure you can sell here but you have to make them here and teach us how because that will help us to grow and be more like you…

US: ok we will make them in your country and teach you every thing we know because we are so proud of who we are that we know you will want to be more like us, You know what, you communist are getting pretty good at making things at a low cost and your quality is getting better and better, what do you say that we start buying all of our stuff from you…

THEM: well ok but we need more capacity and the cheaper we can get it for the cheaper we can sell you stuff for… how about you just sell us your machines and equipment and stuff at scrap value…

US: OK manufacturing is soooooo industrial revolution and we don’t need that stuff… were gonna become knowledge brokers…that’s the way of the future. And besides once you have your own industrial revolution you will become just like us with McDonalds and everything…
Hey!!! what do you mean that you are communist and that even the idea of individual freedoms is a threat to your very existence??? Hey, what’s with all those ships, surveillance networks, and hypersonic missiles you are making along with that virus you just let loose???
OK, I’ll show you… I’m making my own masks and things from now on… what do mean you won’t sell me the materials???

2 Likes