Constitutional Carry must be a 50 state thing with no local restrictions. Unless it is 50 states, even if my state goes Constitutional Carry, I will not give up my CPL as long as reciprocity is an issue.
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Too many. Does a driver’s license prevent it? No. How many carry firearms illegally? Too many. Does licensing prevent it? No. That is just one inherent issue. There will always be people that disregard laws. When we look at the CDC data on accidental firearm deaths, they have been going down for decades, both in percentage and in total numbers, while the number of firearms and concealed carry holders has dramatically increased. If we were out shooting each other, it would make headlines. I am in no way suggesting that someone obtain/carry a firearm without knowing how to properly handle it, and know the laws regarding it. The CDC data is a good indication that is not happening. We are here on this forum as a testament to that.
@Jerzees, our RKBA is not a privilege, and in many states one is also legally able to OC, as it is the right to keep and bear arms - it does not state CC or OC, but bear, as in have on one’s person. Unfortunately, we have allowed our rights to be infringed and some states are far worse than others. Thankfully, we have been seeing some successes in some states, while failing in others, such as my state, Virginia. We had fairly liberal laws until this last legislative session. The laws are still not too harsh, yet, but the thumb screws are now in place.
Obviously I believe in training and practice, and I do not know anyone that carries that does not train/practice. We carry because we believe in personal responsibility - part of that is training, practice and proficiency. We know what can happen to us, one of the reasons we are here and members of the USCCA.
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This supposed to be a POLL, nothing more. Let’s keep it that way.
I personally don’t feel that my rights are infringed… even living in IL.
I’m using 2nd Amendment right, I keep the firearm on me. But I’ve never had anything against when I was told that I had to pass shooting exam before obtaining CC permit. I was surprised there was no “gun law knowledge” exam. I was even more surprised when I saw how people shoot during and after CCW classes.
That was the moment I started to support Mr. Ayoob’s words.
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My carrying constitutionally is not for me based on the 2nd amendment, it is based on the Bible, Jesus did not tell his disciples to go down to the gladiatorial college and learn how to use a sword and then sell their cloak to buy a sword.
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I took my drivers test back in 1982. I have been driving since. I have even drove semi-trucks for a little while. No accidents, no tickets. I took a practice drivers test on line and they have the test worded so it is so hard to understand the question they are asking or the answers they are giving. Government involvement is an issue.
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The 2nd amendment makes no provision other than the absolute right to bear arms.
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Yes, we all have differing levels of knowledge, skills and abilities. Part of what makes the USA great is that we, generally, believe in personal responsibility, part of that is defense of self. We also do not have required training and licensing on hammers, knives, clubs, hands and feet - all used to injure and kill others, too.
The issue is, as I stated, when we discuss mandatory abilities, training, and proficiency, etc., who’s standard will we use? In states where they do have training/classroom/shooting, etc., requirements, there is no set standard in all of those states, which means that the standard is whatever was passed into law, and, obviously, as there is no level standard, it is just a number that they believed sounded good or could get passed into law. Not minding laws curtailing your rights does not make them just.
Another issue with mandatory training, etc., is that it discriminates against the poor that can’t afford the hundreds or more dollars these requirements cost. Those same people are more likely to be living in areas where the RKBA is likely more necessary than in the 'burbs where I live. Where I live, the county and city crime data bears that out.
Those at the range that are poor shooters in your view, are there trying to learn to be better. Just because they obtained their CC license/permit, does not mean they are carrying. I know of two people, one I trained, that do have CHPs, but do not carry. The one I trained knows and follows firearm safety rules, and is proficient enough for me to feel comfortable with her carrying, but she doesn’t. The other is not proficient, having not had much practice, and knows that, which is why he does not carry.
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Not a problem for me. But, since you replied after you said it was not a discussion…
“But beyond the general possession of firearms, the license to carry concealed, deadly weapons in public is not a right but privilege.
To be worthy to this privilege, one must be both discreet and competent with the weapon.”
The bold part of his statement was what I was referring to. I think we have allowed the government to already regulate many of our rights. “Keep and bear” seems pretty simple to me.
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I agree with all the statements. 2nd A is our right - no doubt.
I just don’t feel safe when I know that I can be a “collateral damage” one day because of someone’s fault.
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I agree with this statement. Untrained people with firearms can be just as dangerous as a criminal with a firearm. To clarify, a criminal can mean to shoot you and kill you just as fast as an untrained person with good intentions can accidentally shoot you and kill you.
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This poll reminds me of a recent comment made by a few foreigners, in light of pandemic-related restrictions, regarding Americans’ “obsession with freedom”—ok, I just recalled, one news personality I wouldn’t dignify by calling a journalist, actually said the same thing.
A lot of people don’t get what American liberty means.
It’s not surprising if we consider some Americans don’t get it too 
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What I said is fact. Regardless of the intent if you are shot in the head, you’re dead…if you are shot in a critical area and help doesn’t arrive fast enough, you’re dead. Someone’s “I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to do that” won’t save you. While I voted yes to constitutional carry, I think people that choose to carry would carry responsibly and train. Is that really too much to ask?
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The founding fathers specifically put into the second amendment “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed”
Everyone in America has the human right to own a firearm to protect themselves, trained, or not trained. (Would I like to see responsible gun owners, Yes.) The issue is when you require training or a test that is issued by the government, Local, State, or Federal, who determines the training requirements? Will the test requirements change day to day, week to week, month to month, year to year? , Could the actual government make gun test/training so hard that it becomes an impossible test thus taking away our second amendment rights? Things like this already happen they are called “Red Flag Laws” and they are unconstitutional.
I see this same argument with the 1A. All free speech is to be protected under the Constitution. The second we start to say we need to regulate speech, who is the person making the rules as too what is protected and not protected. Will it change election to election? Once we change some of our rights the rest will soon to follow and we will lose America.
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The more this is talked about, the more I feel there should be some kind of basic class to teach safety and intro to shooting… Want to waive fees, and make it free or next to free, whatever other changes you want… In the last three months, the FBI conducted 10.5 million background checks. Hypothetically, let’s say that every background check passed, and a handgun was sold to 10.5 million law abiding citizens that have never even held a gun previous to the purchase, and they all started carrying the same day. Would you feel safe with the knowledge that there are 10.5 million people carrying that don’t even know the basics of firearm safety? I don’t… What do you think the media would do with that? You think your 2A rights are being infringed now, I would hate to see the headline that the whole world would see…
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While we may not agree, I will listen to and respect everyone’s opinion and views on the subjects in this group. I do not mean to attack anyone’s views or beliefs, if it appears as such. Conversations are a way of learning about and understanding another person and their stance on topics, and I appreciate everyone’s input on touchy subjects. Thank you for sharing with me.
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There should be not required class to own and carry a gun. People SHOULD take classes to get trained. Just a guess here, but I bet most of the new gun owners are getting a house gun, not a EDC gun.
I sought training because the requirement for the CHL permit is not much. But, at the same time, why a permit needed?
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There is already more guns in the US than people, Plus the 10.5 million that where just sold last month. The government knows they can’t outright Ban them.
Gun buy-back programs are a huge failure. (How can the government buy something they never even sold me?, I got my guns from a local gun store.) Even if we all decided to hand in our guns as a massive country wide buy back program, it’s around $90-Billion tax payer dollars to do so.
I agree that people should take training but not forced by the government to do so. I’ve been to gun shops and I’ve seen people in there buying a gun and having Zero clue on gun saftey. Should people have the ability to own a gun with no training, yes. Should there be laws such as a standardize training before purchase, No.
I think it’s up to communities like this, Stores who sell firearms, and even gun manufactures to get these people into proper training. For instance, If I was USCCA or Glock Or some other Big manufacture or even small store, I would say with every purchase of a firearm we offer you a free training class that cost most people $X amount of dollars.
If you think this would cause money issues for gun companies or small gun stores it wouldn’t. $500 dollar gun just becomes $560 dollar gun but includes a “Free” Class in firearms training. This way the person just eat it on the gun purchase, Manufacture gets their MSRP, Gun trainers would get paid a lot more, better paying jobs tend to bring in more experienced people. This is simple things that we don’t do and we could. We don’t need the government to continue to make rules and laws for us. If you gave 10.5 million people a free Class valued at $60 on the back end of a gun purchase I bet you a lot of people would take that course. Groupon is selling out in my area for CCW classed for like $45.
Do I know how to make a business plan or what!
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I agree, they should, but we all know not everyone does, and the gun sales statistics I mentioned were for a hypothetical scenario to make a point. I don’t know what percent of the firearms sold were for EDC, but for the scenario, they were not needed.
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I did not mean to infer that classes should be mandatory to purchase a firearm, only that it is my opinion that there should be some kind of class/training before carrying. We take the initiative to train before/after we get a permit, but not everyone does. The prerequisite would ensure some kind of training and firearm safety. Free is good, though. I don’t care if that’s all you have to do…I would be happy if that was all needed.
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@Fred_G I enjoy learning about all the people that train! The only reason I would like a permit system is to show that the person carrying at the minimum has knowledge of basic firearm safety. I don’t know about you, but I was greatfull for my LTC class. I was updated on the legal side of things and some other aspects that I hadn’t thought of the same way as my instructor presented.
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