I am fine with lawful protests. 1st amendment is there for a reason. I believe these protests have been justified. I do think they lack direction, but they are justified. That being said, I am appalled at how these riots have become acceptable. Celebrities are contributing money to get rioters bailed out of prison. Black owned businesses have been destroyed, I heard a black cop was shot, what’s been going on makes absolutely no sense. It’s 100% emotional.
I’m going to share two articles I found interesting.
I never thought I’d agree with Lil Wayne %100. He basically states that protests should be specific and not aimed at a general group (all cops), they should have a clear goal, he claims the younger generation is not racist, he doesn’t feel racism because he’s a billionaire, and he shares a story of a white cop saving his life.
Not a new thing, just bigger due to free time from Covid (guess that’s gone now ) and social media.
This has also all been an opportunity for political agendas. People are making moves, and money off all this too and people are playing into it.
I am %100 behind having logical, respectful, conversations about racial issues in America (without having to be politically correct). But that does not appear to be what society really wants. I agree too many black people have died from the police. Let’s have some good conversations. ALL parts of the community can do better. I actually want change, but it’s hard to believe people want change when large groups of people are running out of a trashed store with free sneakers and If they get caught a celebrity is going to bail them out and call them “freedom fighters”.
More or less the people are fed up with an ever increasingly growing police force. They continually grow and militarize themselves and as they grow their powers go unchecked. Mind you, I know plenty of great cops, but until the good ones are able to police their own and not turn a blind eye to unnecessary force and other criminal acts committed by their brothers the people will have to police them. It’s unfortunate that homes and stores are being looted and destroyed. To those who fear their livelihood may be destroyed to say, do what you must. But our growing police state has to stop. The tree of liberty must occasionally be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.
While the minority community suffers from the rioters, the lawless looters and those who cause harm and violence……. there is something deeper.
The misinformation and emotion that drives far too many.
George Floyd is a tragic situation, yet we do not know all the information needed to make a determination on what happened, and if it is a crime or not. On the surface, it would appear to be one, however, more details are emerging and the original media inflamed story is not always what it seemed to be.
We also have other cases, such as Tony Timpa, who died the way George Floyd did, yet he did not rate the media coverage of Floyd. The only real difference, is the narrative the media and the lawless instigators of violence want to present. Tony, you see… was white.
The people have a right to ‘peaceably protest’, nothing gives them the right to violence, loot, burn, assault, or even to attempt to instigate conflict by the in your face intimidation attempts trying to create violence.
What we have now, is lawlessness, and any who had valid complaints have already been heard, so that what remains is primarily those seeking to create chaos and violence.
I would question the argument that too many black people have died from the police.
While black people have died, more white people have died from the police, they just do not get the media attention. Google Tony Timpa … and Daniel Shaver.
It should not be a race issue. What happened to George Floyd and Tony Timpa was unacceptable. We still do not know all the details in the Floyd case, and there are disputing autopsy reports, but it does not good to immediately engage in pandering and appeasement of race issues when the problem is not race, but the unacceptable actions of either poorly trained officers or poor department policies, or perhaps simply someone who should never have been a police officer slipping through the cracks.
I don’t believe it’s pandering. I believe it’s an issue, that at the very least, we should be able to discuss in our country. It comes up over and over again. But the conversation of race is not a conversation most people want to have. It’s like reopening an old wound. The conversations we need to have are tough ones imo. Brushing the protestors off as pandering seems rash and absurd.
I would argue statistically, a black man is much more likely to be killed by the police. You have to look at percentage of population, not just the total numbers. That being said you have to look at area too. Not every county has this issue with the police.
I agree that I do not believe race was behind the motives of the cop who killed Floyd’s, but Floyd has become another part of the statistic. He was the straw that broke the camels back for these protests (I think it’s a combo of multiple high profile black killings by law enforcement and citizens arrest, COVID-19 Quarantine, and the social media/ information world we live in. I don’t think the media helps either).
There is clearly an issue of race in this country. For multiple days people are literally screaming over racial discrimination. I believe the protests are justified, BUT the violence and the looting is wrong. Like I said before. BUT the issue, again, will not be solved by screaming. That’s why, yes the police officers have been charged, and policies may change, but that does not fix racism Again, it’s a conversation that no one wants to have because there is not one side fully up blame. All sides need change.
It’s true that more white people die by police than black people. But as a percentage of any given demographic, a black man is more likely to be arrested, convicted, or killed. The reasons for this are complex and I don’t think anyone can nail down a single cause or cure. But every black man I’ve been close to seems to admit this angst at some level, even the doctor I know who lives in a great neighborhood. I think we have to give them that until the statistics no longer support the perception.
This comment is not directed toward anyone nor is it in response to anything I have read on this thread but more like food for thought. My comments below are in general and not talking about the current situation going on in the country right now.
Is it our job to determine what happened in any legal situation? I am not talking about people that are part of an investigation team nor am I talking about people in the legal profession.
I know we all are curious but, would it not be better if we let the trained professionals do their jobs? How does anyone find an impartial jury of peers when everyone’s minds have been made up because of what they have seen on a social media platform?
How many times have I read in post not just here but on other social media outlets that people do not trust the news or the news is bias, that answer is way to often.
If you were the one on trial for a self defense situation, would you not like an impartial jury to hear the facts as presented in court and not what they have seen and been slanted one way or another on social media?
I am truly not looking for answers to the questions I pose here but will welcome any comments anyone has to make. I post this in hopes it will allow us all to look at ourselves and think about ways we might help others as well as ourselves by not adding to the information/rumors/bias which may already be out there.
I for one am trying to hold myself to a higher standard (doesn’t always work I get emotional too) but does anything I have said make any sense to anyone?
Once again this post is not directed toward anyone and is not meant to disrespect anyone, but it is meant to get us thinking and try to make ourselves better.
I combined the two topics (No lotting tolerated and the other thread started by @Watchman) as one was a continuation of the other.
Please remember the point of the USCCA Community is to help everyone learn how to best protect themselves and their loved ones through education and training. We’re doing our best to keep the conversation on track and not straying too far into the political arena of current events.
I’m not shutting the threads down, I’m just hoping to keep them together in hopes of being able to continue to focus on our goals of self-defense training and education.
One of the reasons people are so pro gun is police response times. If we decrease a police force, that seems contrary to building a safer society. I want the police to respond quickly if needed because I don’t want to use my firearm.
Police force is also unique to the area you’re at. Each area has different needs. I don’t view a growing police force in an area trying to crack down on human trafficking for example as a threat. That may not be an issue for other areas. I don’t view the police force as one-United army. They are very unique to where they are at.
I do believe quality officers and training will always be better than quantity though.
Well enforced laws (In just ways) = safer society/ less likely to use my gun IMHO.
I’m following this. But it needs to be limited to self-defense not race. I believe most people are not racist. But their are cultural behaviors our police are ill prepared to deal with.
No, Floyd’s death was a trigger that launched well-prepared and well-financed planned riots. Multiple cities, coordinated, weapons caches for street fights, dynamite in NYC(!) - this is not some grass-roots response. Fox News reported FBI is tracking mobile communications now to find if command-and-control structure exists, so it is not some conspiracy fantasy.
Two threads were combined. The other thread had a much more general topic. Race definitely came up.
When I say “We need to have discussions about race” I don not mean literally here on this board or thread. I mean out in the real world. I feel we can decrease racial tensions and build a safer world for everyone this way.
Yet, the statistics do not support the perception.
The media drives the narrative in many cases, and those who seek to gain some advantage at the expense of the people.
There are many minorities who simply want to work, earn and provide for their family (just like any one… minority or non-minority), yet they are as much a victim of the violence and political pandering. We either have a rule of law, or we do not.
People are either well informed and think critically, or they are weak minded and allow themselves to be misled.
I understand completely. I am forced to wonder though how much quicker the existing force would be to respond if they were fervently trying to enforce petty laws. I remember an old school sheriff saying to me “I can’t believe these new cops I have to work with. They sit around bragging about how many tickets they wrote or how many DUI’s they took in and I just have to think, why don’t you go try to solve the violence in the hood or the dealers selling opiates in the open.”
I understand what you are saying now! I went back “and then they go unchecked”. It’s like it becomes too large to manage and things can get out of hand. I can agree with that!
And I see also, you’re saying we can have a growing police force and certain areas of town or crimes still get avoided.
Sorry to respond to my own post, but I just read that a new pop trend is for festival organizers to “disinvite” the police to their events. I mean, I guess they can do that; most cops I know don’t mind a day off once in awhile. But I wonder if they’re really thinking through what it means to have a parade, a marathon, or a large crowd in a city without police support to block streets and support the crowds.
I guess if someone told me they didn’t want my police support this year, my response would have to be “Good luck. I’ll see you next year!”
In certain places the Police were not responding to any emergencies a few days ago. My mother in law lives in the Kensington part of Philly and that part was a out of control like a warzone. I wonder what happens if you have to use your weapon to protect your life during a temporary WROL situation like that. You call 911 and no one shows up. What do you do then?
) and social media.
I went back “and then they go unchecked”. It’s like it becomes too large to manage and things can get out of hand. I can agree with that!