We have quite a few people where I work that are from other countries, south - Mexico. Columbia, Brazil. East - India, China, Japan. And a few from the Middle East. Many of them claim to have never held/fired a gun. Others it was a one time thing.
We’ve talked about taking them and their familied out to learn about guns and allow them to shoot a few different calibers and types.
As I thought about it the word “Trust” keeps coming up.
Would I trust them to handle a firearm
Would I trust them not to purposely shoot me or others
Would I trust them to not steal the guns
Would I trust them to not call the police after seeing some of the guns
Would I trust them to not tell others who has what
I’m all about giving people the experience, seems like a good way to start the conversation about gun ownership and training, but for some reason, when there could be 8-10-15 new shooters, and 3-5 gun owners that I don’t know real well I just get a little nervous.
Never trust anyone.
I was in that position,being from another Country, never handled or fired firearm (besides some sport version of 22 cal rifle 30 years ago).
I couldn’t trust myself watching the handgun sitting on the desk in front of me… I was afraid to touch it.
So I know such people can’t be trusted, and you don’t know what to expect from them.
Whenever I deal with new shooters and live ammo these days, there is always 1 Instructor for maximum 2 newbies. Otherwise you may miss something…
People I trust at work, I can also trust with firearms. It’s that simple but I can only count two or three trustworthy individuals out of 200.
Is it possible to “adopt” a range partner, depending on who’s a real buddy at work?
I think it’s admirable that you want to expose new people, but I don’t see why you have to take the entire new group all at once?
IMO, if you are seriously asking yourself some of those questions, you may have already made a mistake (civilian version of opsec)
You don’t want any of those numbers (8 or otherwise) of new shooters doing anything other than sit down classroom learning with possibly some inert dummy guns.
I don’t think you want anybody to handle or fire a gun for their first time surrounded by people they want to impress or are concerned with impressions about, so I wouldn’t want first real handling or firing to be with anybody present other than the one doing it.
That’s my bottom line takeaway right there ^
That just seems silly to do. 15? nah
Training Non-US Citizens - Legal Restrictions
Below is a statement shared by the NRA Education & Training Division to NRA Instructors a few months ago:
I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice. This is legal information provided to the Education and Training Division from ILA lawyers after discussion with the US Departments of State and Commerce.
Due to current interpretations of International Traffic in Arms Regulations stemming from the Arms Export Control Act of 1976, only current, lawful “US Persons” - both US Citizens and lawful permanent Resident Aliens in possession of a current I-551 (colloquially known as a "Green Card”) are allowed to participate in NRA firearms training courses.
Bottom line - just as the ATF form 4473 states the legal requirements to buy a gun - those same requirements apply to gun training.
If you have further questions about the legality of providing firearms training to non US citizens, please consult an attorney familiar with ITAR, the Arms Export Control Act, firearms possession, and immigration.
Many professional firearms instructors I contacted were aware of this legal issue and will not train non-citizens, or will only treat green-card holders if not citizens.
That’s an angle I hadn’t thought about. I’ll add to that, what if they are convicted felons?
See the information from NRA to NRA instructors, above. Anything that would cause a NICS rejection on a Form 4473 means no possession of guns, no training. Remember that the ITAR under the AECA of 1976 applies only to non “US persons,” but the 4473 questions apply to everyone.
Just Received my CCW License and Just became an USCCA member. One of the BEST and IMPORTANT decisions of my life. Since I can remember, I was big on Fire arms but most importantly protecting my loved ones . It’s important in this day and age to do so. ITS OUR RIGHT, and to be responsible in the process. Not ashamed to say I’m a rookie at this but with what the USCCA has to offer , they’ll really prepare me to be the best I can be. ALL IN!!!
Might even be a thing to (both for legal purposes and to judge their level of sincerity), if you are going to show them the ropes so to speak, go to the range and have them rent a firearm from the range and you will help them get their first steps with it, vs potentially having a lesser-known entity have control of one of your own firearms
The right to keep and bear arms in the 2nd Ammendment (in fact all of the rights adressed in the Bill of Rights) are rights of Citizenship in the United States of America; they are not rights of residency. Trust is earned. If someone who immigrates into America wants me to trust them with Citizenship rights, they will first have to earn Citizenship. For me, a Green Card is not enough.
Thx God… it is…
To be honest getting Green Card was more complicated that became a Citizen. US Government made more effort to do background check before I was issued GC than Citizenship.
Now I prefer to instruct those who have a valid state issued ID and a state issued CCW/CHP or are a LEO with valid ID, or a ‘green card’. I tell the client that all must have a background check for anything past a CCW basic class.
It’s a double edged sword for me, one side I want more people quality trained out there but the other side is I don’t want to train my ‘enemy’ either.
DTA (Don’t Trust Anybody).
Guns are very tempting to those who never touched them before.
Oh yea, trust! Being an old Cold War vet and retired LEO, I can best sum up my trust level in a quote from General Mattis - Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. And I always wear body armor when I’m instructing! It’s an old habit that isn’t gonna die!
At the range I trust myself. I have been to ranges where the RSOs were not even paying attention and I don’t frequent them anymore. But I have been to ranges that are very professional and the staff is on point. When you go to a range for a first time visit you should google them and check out the reviews. That is what I do. Be very observant and alert.
For years I hated private, members only ranges; now I think is a good way to go. At least most try to have some level of rules, procedures, standards, etc. especially for newer shooters, there are hopefully some competent instructor types around. For newbies they don’t know what they don’t know including safety and trust.
There are many indicators but one I like seeing at ranges is a list of banned persons posted at the counter. It’s a little reassuring that they do pay attention and will not tolerate unsafe behavior.