Should people off the street be given minimal firearm training and cut loose on a range?

Legal & Second Amendment
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Morning, at an indoor gun range we see many, many first time shooters (for this post defined as someone who has never held or fired a firearm) come in on an almost daily basis. The range policy is for the RSO to provide 10-15 of simple instruction, then turn them loose on the range. I’ve seen more than 50 first time shooters in the last quarter, from over 22 different countries in the last 8 months. Most indicate its a “bucket list” item and they’’re in town for only a few days but want the experience before returning home to a country where they are prohibited from owning a firearm. My personal dilemma is, I think these folks should be required to attend a beginners class prior to renting, and shooting everything from a pistol to a machine gun. There is not enough space here to tell all the stories and examples of what happens on a daily basis. But I’ve seen many attempts to straw purchase firearms, to foreigners asking to purchase a gun…and more.

Now to the question: Should someone who has never handled a firearm be required to take a new shooter class before being allowed on the range?
This question “excludes” those new shooters where a competent adult is teaching a friend or family member to shoot.

Personally, I’m beginning to struggle with the policy of brief safety and sight alignment procedures and turning them loose on the range full of other shooters. Not to mention the gnawing thought (hair on back of neck standing up) that we could be aiding unscrupulous people.

Thoughts!!!

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Im kinda torn on it also. 15 minute tutorial isnt enough. Im 51 and have dealt with firearms most of my adult life, would have been longer but i grew up in a very strict anti gun house.

Im teaching my daughter now to shoot. Starting with a crossbow to get the basic rules in her head.

So far shes not ready for a live round out of her 22.

Was a RSO in the Marine Corps and sometimes you can tell when someone is ready.

Tough call

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my short answer is no, but the reason i say that is because of the way I was trained. my training started with my father he taught about safety, manual of arms, nomenclature, sight picture, breathing, trigger control, as well as proper positions. and to never sweep anyone with the muzzle. this was all done at home on the farm then he turned me over to a certified nra rifle and pistol instructor and state dnr hunter safety instructor. and all of this was before i could shoot on the nra’s indoor range. so no 10 to 15 minutes of instruction would = no use at my range.

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I will give another perspective. Being an immigrant who faced the firearm as a everyday tool - i’d say YES… each new shooter or person who never handled a firearm should take a “new shooter / intro to safe firearm handling” class.

If you are competent enough, such class would be great addition to your knowledge. If you struggling with firearm’s handling, its better to learn it under Instructor’s supervision, not between other people.

I know… “it’s my goddamn constitutional right”.… I’ve heard it million times… and I still don’t agree with those words.

Just be proficient, skilled, trained (whichever fits the best) and safe with anything you are using every day before you go between other people and compromised their safety or even lives.
I never do shortcuts in my life. I want to be trusted even if I do not trust others.

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I think everyone should get as much training as possible before handling and owning firearms. Which is why I support making firearms safety training mandatory in schools. I suspect it would go a long way towards preventing the injuries and deaths from firearm accidents that the anti self defense crowd pretends to care so much about.

But I don’t think that a multi day or even multi hour course is necessary for a tourist from a country where firearms aren’t allowed who is just looking to cross something off their bucket list by firing a few shots down range. 10 or 15 minutes seems reasonable as long as the person demonstrates they understand the safety rules and that they can follow them. Of course the RSO should be watching inexperienced users very closely until they have confirmed they can act safely.

Maybe those users will go back to their own country and tell their friends and neighbors how they had fun shooting and were able to pick up the firearm without it going off on its own and killing dozens of innocent people. Plus they hopefully get to interact with some reasonable firearms owners and see that they aren’t the bloodthirsty psychopaths that the media tries to portray us to be.

I also don’t think it is necessary for a US citizen who is curious about seeing what firearms are all about but doesn’t have the time or money to take an extensive course just to find out. I’d much rather a person get 10 or 15 minutes of instruction on safe handling then just buy a firearm, stick in the drawer at home and call themselves good to go. Ideally the RSO would direct them to further training resources and discuss the benefits of going through them after the brief introduction.

Having said all that, I rarely go to public ranges because I don’t like being around the occasional yahoos who go there. No amount of training is going to fix some of those yahoos.

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Did I read that right? You disagree with the words “it’s my goddamn constitutional right”? A you may want to take a look at that ole Constitution, it really is my goddamn constitutional right to keep and bear arms. Just sayin.

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IMB_E8GeON

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Technically an RSO should be keeping an eye on them the entire time… but of course thats as well as keeping an eye on the rest of range… so idk… i didnt go by myself without experienced friends for over 6 months… and in that 6 months also took a safety cert course for ltc… soooo ya theres that. :man_shrugging:t2:

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Jerzees. Been thinking aboit your comment on the 2nd. Basically it comes back to it is our god given right. Our country was founded on numerous rights and our beloved constitution.

Should some people own guns? Thats more of an ethical question vs a constitutional question.

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I think there are rules and laws about unsafe use of firearms. If there aren’t there should be. If I see someone being unsafe I will either tell them or ask someone else to tell them.

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You might want to clarify some on this. I too believe every legal American citizen has the right to own and bear arm. Unless that person has demonstrated through their actions and a court rules that right should be taken away. Talking about a corrupt court taking rights is a different conversation.

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Every GG protector started off some place after birth, none were born with gun in hand.

Some got trained early in life being brought up in gun families, or in the military.

Some are coming around later in life.

What’s our options?

Giver them a chance to get up to speed.

Learning where to keep the muzzle pointed, and your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot, and there is the range, is a start in the right direction.

Or, they start carrying without that, or not at all.

If they show an interest we should point them in the right direction.

We as had to learn the fundamentals and practice,

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Yes, there is a lot more to it.

I never consider my education, and training finished.

There is always something new:

New developments in firearms, and ammunition, and ever changing laws.

A lot to keep up with.

That might be a fundamental to get all newbie to keep in mind:

You never know it all.

Learning should never stop once you started.

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i agree we never stop learning. but i still say 10 to 15 min is not good enough to let someone on the range. sorry its a no go at my range.

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Nothing to clarify. Yes, you can go off in the weeds and some people lose their rights, felons, etc.

As a citizen, it is your right to bear arms…along with all other rights. You screw your life up by breaking the law, thats on you but you start out with the right

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50 First time shooters from 22 different counties in 8 months. This is a real RED FLAG. Word get around quickly in the belly of the unscrupulous population

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Yeah, we spent several days in basic training in a class before being marched to the range for live fire training.

But, by then we also were all thought to be responsive to commands, and had all around us armed drill sergeants standing by.

It was plan to all that this was a no nonsense situation environment, and getting out of line wasn’t an option.

The range control officers gave all the manual of arms orders, and firing and cease firing orders, when to insert and remove magazines, safe and unsafe, the rifles, keep them pointed down range, when to pick them up and ground them.

With hundreds of troops shooting simultaneously it was all tightly controlled, and without an incident, the mission was accomplished.

But, everyone has to start somewhere.

Maybe the ranges should consider training what they consider essential to know.

I agree that all should know all the safety fundamentals.

They got their rules, conform, or get out!

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I had a friend who was entertaining investors from Germany. (He built solar panels)

On their bucket list was shooting guns, he had a few, but knew I had more… so I got a call to bring out the arsenal.

The look on their faces when they felt the recoil of a shotgun was priceless!!

When a tumbleweed rolled past they absolutely lost their $#!+

Of course, there were two of them, and two of us. Safety was paramount and while there were shenanigans, (shooting moving targets like tumbleweeds, and mag dumps that vastly hit dirt over steel…) it was all safe and all muzzles stayed down range at all times.

I wouldn’t have trusted them with guns unsupervised…. They were like children as far as that was concerned.

That said, I raised my kids to respect guns, they started shooting air guns and airsoft guns before they were 10 (obviously they had and still have an arsenal of nerf guns too)

The GIF I posted up above was my youngest,… 11 at the time (19 now) shooting a .44mag Desert Eagle! :eagle:

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So,… I guess my answer is that for a gun range, you should have an RO that is dedicated to “new” shooters.

Gun ranges are private establishments and are subject to the private rules of the owners.

As to requiring training or anything like that for the purchase of a gun,… NO,…. And that kinda hurts to say,… but putting that requirement on gun ownership is an infringement and not constitutional.

Darwin awards will go out to those deserving of them.

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IMHO…No. First time shooters are the bread and butter for most, if not all, ranges. Lose them and you will likely lose the range. Is this an imperfect situation? Yes. The risks are real, but in the last 8 years all of the negligent discharges I witnessed were by experienced shooters (during CCW quals). I try to mitigate the “first time shooter” hazards by telling them if they flag anyone, point their weapon in an unsafe direction, discharge their weapon into the wall, floor, or ceiling, damage the facility, negligently discharge their weapon, or pass it hand to hand to another person, that I will personally remove them from the range, collect their range fees (including damage fees) and escort them from the building (after notating their file that they are banned from shooting). So far, so good.

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Back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth, it was the norm to memorize and understand the ten commandments of gun safely before being let loose on the range.
It seemed to work just fine.
Once at the range, the basics of marksmanship were taught.

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