New Gun Owner Smoking Weed While Training Shoots Buddy Dead

Self-Defense True Stories
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Agreed. And that is one of the arguments for legalizing drugs, not that I use any illegal drugs. If we believe in personal responsibility, the choice of using a particular substance and its consequences are, even when illegal, still a personal choice. There are many people that use alcohol and many other substances that are still quite able to function as a productive members of society.

Making possession or use of a particular substance illegal does not make society safer, especially when people that want it, will obtain it and use it anyway. That is the same argument we make for our RKBA, those that do bad things will get what they want to do those bad things.

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Yes, it is worse. I’ve been sleep deprived with nuclear weapons under my control. ONLY apologists for MJ talk like this, and ALL of them are either impaired by illicit drugs or compromised by their economic stake in the MJ trade.

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What about those that grow their own, no economic issues there, so that is okay?

Recreational users are not compromised, just as recreational users of alcohol are not. Are you an apologist for Alcoholics? I am not an apologist for drug users. I have also been sleep deprived. I do not believe falling asleep on the job when one needs to be conscious is better than being under the influence of any drug.

There are many people that are impaired by alcohol on a regular basis, that makes them no better than other drug users, except that the drug in question is legal. I have known people that used Marijuana, but were not pot heads. Unless they told you, you would not suspect they used it - that is not being an apologist, that is being a realist. I would be more concerned about you falling asleep at the nuclear switch then those I mentioned. Their lives did not have millions of others in their hands.

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I know there are MJ proponents even among the 2A crowd.

Would you board an airplane knowing the pilot just smoked weed?

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I drill into people the David Blaine, chris Angel , and David copperfield theory: what if someone among us knows sleight of hand always check the weapon to see if it’s empty /loaded every weapon is hot and should never be pointed at what you don’t intend on destroying. Yes accidents happen but this could’ve been avoided in two ways one stand adjacent to the shooter then when you tell the shooter to ready his/her weapon move from 9 o’clock to 7 o’clock 1 arms length away as they finish shooting function check the weapon remove mag, rack slide 3x return weapon to a level 2 holster and critique the shooters performance by bringing them down range to inspect the target , in lieu of shooting from cover exercises you move to the rear of the person 6 o’clock position the critiques can be made from the rear and to engage dialogue you place a hand on the shoulder of the side You intend to talk from and apply firm grip to the shooters shoulder it is like a corrective movement and it arrests the startle effect some what I will perfect this technique as soon as I get my instructor credentials I hope to innovate the industry

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Would you board the plane knowing the pilot just left the bar? Much more likely and still happens. The answer to both, obviously, is no. No one is advocating anyone using any drug and using firearms nor anything else that could cause one, or anyone else, harm.

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Amen to that brother.

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The point, Dave17, is that nobody compulsively tries to defend the drunk driver who kills a kid riding a bike in his neighborhood. Yet, here you are preaching to us all about the functional and moral equivalence of MJ and alcohol. On those points, I say it is IRRELEVANT to the dead young man’s family. And on the LEGAL point, MJ is a federally controlled substance. This idiot will get a more severe punishment under law…even in 420 friendly FL…because it was MJ than if he admitted to drinking beer. You and millions of potheads may think that is unfair, but I’ve heard potheads talk like that all my life and it is still the law. You see, potheads lack sufficient motivation to legally protect their own vice. Apparently, that isn’t the case with drunks. So there IS “a difference.” I moved to FL 2 years ago because of that difference and am now caring for 3 people who destroyed themselves with POT. Yes, I’ve known a few people who drank themselves to poor health and personal ruination, too. They tend not to deny the fact that it was the booze. But the potheads think YOU…the guy helping them get by…are an idiot and constantly have to try to explain it to you that the weed is NOT the problem. Hell, man! It’s the CURE to everything that ails you. My problem isn’t with weed. My BIG problem is with the lies of MJ culture!

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I did not complain about it being “unfair”. If he was under the influence of alcohol, he would have faced a harsh sentence, too. Probably a lesser sentence if he was not under the influence of anything, but stupidity, which he clearly also suffers from. I specifically was addressing those that are not “pot heads”, those that are otherwise law-abiding and are not outwardly impaired by their drug use.

Well, at least now I understand why you have posted such vitriol about those that use Marijuana, that you know people that are “pot heads”. Interestingly, you seem not to have such harsh words for those that you knew that were alcoholics.

I stated that, too, “The only thing that makes it worse is there is a federal law that specifically makes it a felony to be in possession of a firearm while in possession of Marijuana, whether or not using it at that moment. […] In no way am I advocating for being under the influence of anything while armed, just noting the different way Marijuana is regulated to other drugs in relation to firearms.”

No, I have not. What I did state is that all substances should be legal. Let people do what they want - personal responsibility. If they do something to hurt someone, then let our legal system address the issue. Making all these drugs illegal has not prevented people from using them.

As I stated earlier, we use the same argument about “gun control”, but you believe that drug laws work? I believe in personal responsibility. People obviously ignore drug laws, just as they do firearm laws. We could put the money used for drug-enforcement, police, courts, prisons, etc., to better use if drugs were legalized. Then maybe those that you are aiding could get the help they need to improve their lives.

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@Dave17, you are advocating for a libertarian approach to drugs. I disagree with that approach to drug policy, and this incident is a prime example why. I understand the principle of personal responsibility and the person being ultimately responsible for their actions. However, when it comes to drugs, all too often innocent people and the family and friends around the user are the ones who suffer the consequences first and more deeply. Take this example. This man’s drug use, whether legal or illegal, did not simply end in this man impacting his life in that he ended up hitting “rock bottom” or dying of an OD. It was his friend who ended up paying for the decision with his life. That is, to me, a perfect example of why we cant just make it all legal and trust personal responsibility. Sure, one can make correlations to legal drugs or alcohol. To me, that is an intellectually dishonest argument as it is not the same. First, to compare it to legal FDA drugs is to compare apples to oranges. Any drug or substance can be misused. Guns are misused, gasoline is misused, I could go on. But to compare it to a legal FDA drug ignores the fact that an FDA approved drug has been tested for efficacy and safety and the risk benefit has been evaluated prior to approval. Sure, we can make the argument that the FDA is an imperfect regulating body, and you would be correct, but it is what we have. Would you argue that there be no oversight over medical drugs? And currently marijuana has not had any benefit weighted against its safety issues. And as for the comparison to alcohol on the recreational side, I would like to point out that even with laws, people will make bad choices. Take a look at drunk driving deaths. And yes, there are cases of people abusing alcohol and mixing it with guns. But there is also one big thing that alcohol has that mj does not and that is a reliable test to determine a person’s level of intoxication. As of right now, there is no reliable test for level of impairment due to marijuana. This is something that the police here in my state of Michigan are dealing with. The roadside tests that they have tried produce an unacceptable amount of false readings. And as to your comment about letting the legal system handle those who impact other people’s lives, do you really trust the legal system to adequately punish those who destroy lives? Take a look again at drunk driving. How many cases have you heard of drunk drivers that are let go, or got a little slap on the wrist and are allowed by our legal system to continue to impact other people’s lives as well as the families of their victims not getting the closure and comfort of knowing that their transgressor was given the punishment he deserved. Also, I have no trust that the legal system will properly handle drug cases, legal or otherwise, in the face of pushes for further criminal justice reform.

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This incident does not show how legalizing drugs would result in this, just as drunk driving does not show how legalizing alcohol results in that. Personal responsibility and choices are what causes those events. The guy that shot his friend was already not “allowed” to have the drug in question, but did. He chose to break the law, he chose to use the drug, he chose to be irresponsible and caused the death of his friend.

As to testing for drugs in a traffic incident, the drugs do not matter, the incident matters. People have car crashes while sober, the result is the same. The same goes for other crimes, we all state it isn’t the firearm that kills, its the person using it that kills. People use all sorts of implements to kill, including hands, feet, and fists (a category in the FBI UCR stats). It does not matter what implement, or not, was used, the result is the same. The responsible party is the person, not the implement, same with drug use.

Did I state that drugs should not be tested and regulated? Are illegal drugs being tested and regulated now? Is Moonshine tested and regulated? As you pointed out, the government cannot control everything, and as a result, we must rely on ourselves and our judgment for day-to-day life. Is the Justice system “fair and just”? We read numerous cases where it does not appear to be, but we are not dissolving it, nor should we.

The War on Drugs is a horribly failed system that untold billions, probably trillions of dollars have vanished into, and lives lost on all sides, family members, criminals, police, etc. It did not prevent this person from obtaining illegal drugs and using them, nor prevent his killing his friend, nor will it prevent all the suffering of untold others. We should use that money for education and rehabilitation, that will help far more than incarcerating a drug user. Possession should not be a crime, only actual crimes should be prosecuted.

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32

If you know that you are intoxicated in anyway, even by prescription drugs, it is your responsibility to know that you are not in the state of mind to be handling a firearm, and the best thing you can do is not even go anywhere near your firearm(s).

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33

I have no idea of what the law is in other states but here in Arkansas if you had a prescrition card your CCL is y canceled and and if you are caught with a weapon you can be charged with a felony for having it and weed.

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Alex22,

Of course. I posted this local news story here to see if the same thing would happen here that happens everywhere you post anything about an accident or crime where people got hurt or killed and MJ was involved. Even in firearms and religious discussion groups, you will get at least one…ummm…person who goes ON AND ON about “weed is no worse than alcohol,” and a few people who support them with likes or comments. Never fails. These are the people you NEVER want to shoot with…or be around when they are using power tools, or get in a vehicle they are driving, etc. That’s just my 2 cents for a healthier, wealthier, happier life.

Folks need to realize their CWP and USCCA card won’t do them a bit of good if the authorities find evidence they have recently used a controlled substance OR ALCOHOL after something goes sideways on them in the blink of an eye. People who insist on playing with fire eventually get burned.

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Exactly! Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Words to live by!

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I never stated that. It seems you are the one with the issue. You are lit (pun intended) by Marijuana, I believe using any drug while handling a firearm is wrong, and usually it is a criminal act. You keep dwelling on Marijuana use while excusing/dismissing/diminishing any other impairment.

I am quite safe with my firearms, thank you. You are taking this a bit personal, and casting aspersions. You might want to tone down the rhetoric a few notches.

All of us here are quite well aware of that.

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37

This is one of the Macro systems we need to fix in our society imo.

YMMV

P.S. See I told you I was liberal on alot of things. Just not liberal on the care of our military, and am a Constitutionalist.

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I am a Conservative, limited government, and personal responsibility is at the core. There a huge difference between a true Liberal and a “Liberal Democrat” - different sides of the political spectrum.

[Edit]: Obviously there are values that most of us hold, regardless of political stance, here, firearms is one.

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39

Once you’ve had hot brass burning the tender skin of your breasts, you remember the next time to wear a high-necked shirt. I still don’t understand how one can react to it in such a manner as to shoot the person standing next to you.

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Weed isn’t as bad as …(after a long pause) … yeah man it politics !..( same pause ) … you know ? Truth is I want no one around me on weed ! As with many natural things it’s Abused in concentration. Most use too much for any medicinal benefit so much is not understood about it to actually form a solid opinion. My opinion is it’s a useless crutch that impairs brain function and guns and impaired brain function is never a good look period I agree with you Ken and our little weed head friend from the start we know what happens when they pick up guns accidents happen because of impaired motor functions and not standing in the shooters natural blind spot non dominant hand one arm length away it’s called the Owen Johnson technique Next time you train some one stand there

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