I have one for the fence at the front of my property and one for the door itself.
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Thanks for my new puppy notification pic! Notice is now fresh off the press and being laminated as we speak.
I say he’s a real looker! 
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Hi Lynne5, just a couple of thoughts:
- I would have preferred if the couple just went into their house, armed themselves, and waited and watched to see what the crowd would do. More likely than not, the so-called protestors would have just continued walking by. Retreating takes a lot of courage. Retreating can be a strategy and tactic. It appears that they at least partially responded out of “fear of the unknown” rather than just purely out of “fear of imminent death or serious bodily harm”. That’s not a judgment, just an observation. They seemed to lack training.
- By virtue of haphazardly having their firearms out and pointed at the crowd (and each other), the have started at the ‘end’. There is no real way to back down. They didn’t leave themselves any wiggle-room. So what I am saying is that they immediately appeared with firearms pointing all over the place (and at times, in the direction of the crowd). If anyone in the crowd would have called their bluff, the only option that they had left for themselves is to start shooting (anti-social activists/anarchists call your bluffs – they’re punching police officers these days with impunity).
- So, instead of starting at the furthest extreme within a level of force (pointing a firearm at someone), here is an analogy of how ‘degrees’ can be used within a single ‘level’ of force → It may be necessary for a police officer to use a night-stick in the course of their duties. But a wise police officer does not approach a subject with a night-stick raised above their head, threatening the subject that they will hit them if they don’t comply. A wise police officer keeps their night-stick holstered and uses verbal instructions to get compliance. If there is no compliance, the officer can put their hand on their night-stick while continuing to give verbal commands. If there is still no compliance, the officer can remove the night-stick and hold it down at their side while continuing to give verbal commands. If there is still no compliance the night-stick can be raised above the waist and held in two hands while continuing to give verbal commands. If there is still no compliance, the night-stick can be raised above their head in the ready position (to strike) while continuing to give verbal commands, because at this point, it appears that there will be no compliance and the actual level of force required and justified may now need to be taken. So, even though this isn’t the best example because we don’t have more details about the type of threat from the subject, it still shows how you can use ‘degrees’ within a single ‘level’ of force. The subject is keenly aware that things are getting worse for them as the officer increases the pressure on the subject to comply. It slows things down a little and gives space (wiggle-room) around what is happening. The officer can move back and forth within degrees of that level of force according to responses of the subject. If the officer starts out with a raised night-stick, they have put themselves in a very uncomfortable situation. If they lower the night-stick they look weak and as if bluffing. Using this example, the couple, in a sense, ‘started’ with the night-stick above their heads (of, course, nothing about what I have said here is meant to say that an officer (or gun owner) can’t or shouldn’t start with a night-stick above their head – it depends on the circumstances).
- I think one of the most important words in the English language for gun owners is discernment.
- Even though I don’t agree with the way they handled that situation, I don’t think they broke the law when the totality of circumstances are taken into consideration.
- Don’t be afraid to retreat even if you have the legal right to stand your ground or you have the luxury of castle doctrine laws. Yes, you will be able to say you were within your rights, but you may suffer the painful side-effects of ‘cancel-culture’, i.e., public humiliation, financial ruin, job loss, etc. In today’s environment, radical groups are also going after family members. Your children will also be the target of these hate groups. They will label your children racist, try to get them fired from their jobs, write letters to their neighbors, etc. Strategy and tactics will need to be adjusted for the current times we are experiencing.
- Finally, you may actually kill another human being. If you are going to have to kill another human being, I hope that you can honestly say that there were no other options. If you had an option to retreat, but decided not to because you were within your legal right not to, I wouldn’t judge you for that decision – but times are changing – we have never experienced the anarchy we are experiencing these days. The court of public opinion needs to be considered as well because in these times your actions may unintentionally affect your family members – particularly when dealing with a high-profile group like this couple did. And in this particular case, even the ‘court of law’ has been manipulated for political reasons against these legal gun owners.
- I’m not concerned that people won’t shoot when they need to – I’m concerned that people will shoot when they don’t need to…
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So far as I know, there are no Castle Doctrine laws that allow you to step outside your home and brandish your weapon in any manner. There are a number of laws that you can be charged with in almost every state, if they so choose to do so.
I read where that couple didn’t even have ammunition, which IMHO made the situation even more dangerous, as I’ve seen police officers challenged to go ahead and shoot, only to discover that the police officer’s threat was an empty bluff.
If you pull a weapon, you need to be sure you’re in the right with the law. And that you also prepared to shoot, in defense of yourself or to save a life, and shoulder the resulting consequences of that decision.
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Short reply: Yes, if your intent was to lure a criminal into your home in order to do him harm. Court ruled a man guilty of Murder 1st after he intentionally left his garage door ajar in order to lure teenagers who’d broken in twice. He set the trap, killed a boy In cold blood after he broke in, and he went to jail for 70 years.
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In that case we should stop the threat the first time they break in, yes?
My whole life, bad guy wins, good guy looses. And soon enough we are about to lose everything we hold dear. I pray you have never been a victim of violence!
I think what we all need to understand is, that by leaving my doors open at my home is not luring, to get fresh air is not luring, my wearing of fine jewelry, is not luring, leaving my car door open while refueling is not luring, leaving my garage door open while mowing the lawn is not luring.
Maybe I should barbed wire my home, plant claymores and place “please” don’t trespass signs on my lawn, is that luring bad guy, or if I refuse to put up signs, is that luring? Which is it?
I surely hope you’re not implying that if my daughter wears a short skirt, she’s asking to be raped!
Personally, I don’t think we need to lure a criminal to do anything, it’s called pre-mediation. When the courts realize that, maybe you and I won’t have to concern ourselves with “Self defense”!
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I really didn’t mean to upset you further. The point of what I linked was INTENT. The normal routines of living do not constitute luring.
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I thought they went over this in our concealed carry class just because they broke in doesn’t mean you get to use deadly force ! A person breaks in my house and I meet him in the garage. My presence and voice if one level of deterrence you are supposed to be vocal what if they are confused and don’t understand you or autistic now I’m going to keep my distance but if he in the garage I’m opening the garage door and telling him to get out not shooting ! I shoot when I feel threatened , if said individual is in my living space after breaking in that second door yeah I pray that he won’t come further but if he did I would be within rights to shoot , but if he turns and runs I at least try to make sure he actually left do a hard target around my house and secure my area as I’m calling the police
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That statement is accurate and I appreciate your view.
But upon further inspection of my states laws, (and I inspect them daily) let’s be clear on the “breaking in” portion, a person who is in a dwelling or a residence in which the person has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his/her ground and use or threaten to use; deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or grave bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. (breaking in is a forcible felony, stumbling in is an oops, entering with any other motive will be argued in a courtroom).
If some idiot stumbles into my garage, of course I’m not going to shoot! However if his motives turn out to be other than tea and crumpets, we have an entirely different situation and I surely didn’t lure him into my garage, because it was open during my daily chores. Now that we are like locked down due to coronavirus and I open my windows this is not luring, if stupid “intends” to enter said window he will be placing the wrong bet with the wrong bookie. My intent to freshen my air in my castle is not an open invitation to luring stupid into my castle.
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Lynn,
As others have said Welcome!
In terms of the bear spray you purchased, I would advise you to check your state laws on what’s legal in terms of defensive weapons. The other thing to consider when using anything that sprays is the possibility of it blowing or somehow coming into contact with you or those you’re trying to protect, which could put you at even greater risk.
Depending on the state you live in, you may have to qualify on a range as part of obtaining a CWP. If so, get some lessons/training in before hand.
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CPW classes should not be mistaken for Defensive Shooting during a dynamite c critical incident. Concerning a break in while you’re at home, USCCA Instructors will teach, as part of Defensive Shooting Fundamentals Level 1, Evade, Barricade, Communicate, Arm and Respond. The communication aspect is with LE, not the intruder, because you don’t want to give your location away. Any warnings or communication with the bad guy(s), would come into play, if your evade/barricade location is breached. Have a plan for your family in case of a break in, and practice it!
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No worries, not upset. Understand the intent of your intention. We all need to study our state laws and follow as best we can without putting ourselves in danger, the politicians are accomplishing that. As you can see daily a lot of scared people are drawing down on people out of an emotional state. I learned a long time ago that an emotional fight is a loosing fight.
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I think I’m old school, I still use the OODA loop. Observe, Orient, Decide,Act. Bad guy uses same loop, it saves time!
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State reps for USCCA regularly schedule sessions where criminal defense attorneys speak and answer questions about such things as Stand Your Ground Laws, Castle Doctrine, CWP, laws, use of lethal force, etc., as they have been argued in court. Just remember just because you are according to state law justified in using lethal force does not mean you won’t be arrested and prosecuted criminally. The there is also the possibility of civil litigation.
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Hence my association with USCCA. Is it the truth that will set you free or an attorney that understands the true nature of a justifiable use of force? The Mcloskey’s used their g-d given rights on many levels, granted they weren’t trained very well, but are now the felons. There is something terribly wrong with this picture.
In addition you’re correct, even if you do “everything” right, you can become a George Zimmerman!
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Todd30,
In the two states that I teach DSF Level 1 in, Stand Your Ground and Castle Doctrine are two vastly different laws. SYG meaning you have no legal obligation to retreat, which could be applied both at home or out in public. Castle Doctrine, would apply to your home, car, boat, or any place you have a legal right to be. Also I agree with your thought on the low ready position for the AR, but would recommend a high compressed ready for the handgun.
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I hope you’re getting some of the answers you’re looking for by reading between the lines, some of us (when I say us, I mean me) get a little spirited. We all want to be safe from the evil that has presented itself.
I will say that @JoeMc hit all the notes in this symphony?
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Folks, you can type the word God. It is not a curse word. People here don’t seem to have a problem with it. Not trying to be a scold but it breaks my heart to think that people feel like His name has to be avoided. Lecture over, God bless you all.
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You’re right, just something I was preprogrammed to do by NY public institutions.
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Many neighborhoods have certain codes that don’t allow home owners to have a fenced front yard, unfortunately.
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