I never thought I’d hear of the the day a cop draws on you simply because you have a CCW, but here we are.
1st sentence is so true. But disbanding the PD, as suggested wont do much. You really need to disband the entire city, maniacs electing maniacs.
They payed out $100k but the officer wasn’t reprimanded.
I wonder how expensive a mistake one can make before the department notices?
You may be on to something there . . .
Thinking about this again, this morning. Since the PD settled, that probably meant avoiding an official admission of responsibility (guilt). In the weird world of bureaucracy, perhaps they didn’t reprimand the officer because that would then prove that he did something wrong.
I’m not saying that’s what happened, but I can imagine some upper-middle-manager-bureaucrat type coming up with that.
I’ve talked with more than a few LEO friends and partners recently and there seems to be a mixed reply to the revelation of a CCW. In a non scientific observational study (ie: me listening) younger LEO are more intimidated or agitated when they run the plate of a car and find the owner has a CCW than older LEO. The older LEO are actually MORE AT EASE with the knowledge that a driver has a CCW and there is a fair possibility that there is a firearm close at hand in the car. The younger ones go to high alert for the same.
Of course nowadays if you are not on full tripwire alert as a LEO you might end up dead in your car.
I agree with the assessment that some bean counter somewhere said “racial, intimidation, harassment law suit for millions or $100K to let the whole thing go and DO NOT admit guilt by reprimanding the officer”. In 1996 I worked for the head office of a large command in the Navy, my boss was the adjutant to the Executive Officer that would handle law suits against the command. She told me point blank on the topic, “Have your family file a claim for less that $500K and the Navy will stroke you a check because it costs more than that to go to court and the press is bad.” Sux but true.
Which is backward logic, IMO. In my thinking, if someone has a CCW they are very probably a responsible gun owner.
Happens a lot more often than you think, and it is because of their training. That Bulletproof Mindset training that teaches every cop that every citizen is a threat until proven otherwise. So you don’t have to have a gun on your person, or even in the car for the cops to get their hackles up the second you hand them your license. I had an officer tell me he didn’t need to see mine because for whatever reason my license and my permit information are somehow linked. Which I thought was interesting considering that it supposed to be private, and in a completely separate database.
That said, if you are getting pulled over by the cops, it does not matter what color you are, or if you have a permit to carry, you have a 50/50 chance of being ventilated because some undertrained, overstressed twitchy officer who is new, may choose to escalate a situation because he was trained to do so. More arrests mean more money the same as more tickets mean more money.
I’m not sure how you were trained, but you were trained wrong.
We were trained to be prepared for any situation that might go sideways, but that’s not the same thing. It was drilled into us to be helpful whenever possible, de-escalate whenever necessary, and that the job sometimes requires putting yourself between the bullet and the people you’re sworn to protect. It’s pretty much the opposite of what you just said.
This is absolute nonsense. Show me the math that implies HALF of the people in a traffic stop are shot by a police officer.
I had a long winded post that I was going to put here but for the sake of brevity, I will shorten it, and it will probably still be too long.
I have had extensive training. I have also the benefit of knowing currently working police officers and at least 3 retirees from the job. I know them, I understand them. I have heard their insights, and I have heard their struggles. While my initial post above may have come off as inflammatory, it was not meant to be.
When I teach my students to deal with police, I tell them that there are rules that will guarantee their survival, and a positive outcome with the police. You as a police officer know probably better than anyone that any traffic stop can go from zero threat, to life and death. Treating each traffic stop of welfare check as a 50/50 proposition keeps police officers alive. I teach the same thing.
I teach my students to do the following. Follow instructions. Speak with a calm voice. Make sure that they know you have a permit, and answer any questions pertaining to the firearm clinically. Make no sudden moves, and always have your documents at the ready. More than any of those things, Treat the officer with the respect they are due.
Doing those things, as a citizen mitigates disaster, and may change the dynamic between police and private citizen. You know full well that someone having a bad day on either side can create tragedy. I also teach my students to be compassionate for the people who have the worst job in the world. Every day, your interactions are with people who are criminals, or are dishonest. I know this, I have seen what police do every day. I also have my own experiences to draw from which is why I caution anyone who is not of the initiated to tread lightly.
I hope that clarifies, and my apologies if my initial post offended you.
Ah, I see. So your point (my apologies if I misunderstood) is that people need to behave during an encounter with LE as though they have a 50% chance of going sideways?
I’m not sure I agree with the fear in that statement; I think a lot of the problems people have with LE are based on the fear they bring with them to the encounter. (My grandfather used to tell me over and over again, no matter what the police officer says or does, my answer is ‘yes sir.’ He’d say I can always file a complaint the next day, but not if I’m dead.)
But I agree that both the police officer and the citizen need to keep the encounter as professional as possible. It’s been interesting to see the effects as more and more departments become equipped with dashcams and bodycams.
I don’t equate common sense with fear, just like I don’t typically believe that a cautioned police officer is a Fraidy-Cop. While dash cams and body cams have been helpful, what has been the most deleterious to the reputation and relationship between citizen and police has been the media and worse, the lawyers and various groups who smell money. All these pukes who screech “ACAB” are the first ones that call the police if someone bloodies their nose during one of their “mostly peaceful protests” that are usually oddly enough, against the police.
There’s a form of mental illness running wild in this country. I just wish that everyone would eat more fruit and get more exercise and then maybe some of that extra crazy would be removed. Nice meeting you online and thanks for allowing me to clarify.
Everything that you just described is another way of saying “one wrong move and you’re dead.” That may be taking it to the extreme, but analyze your statements. “Speak in a calm voice.” “Make no sudden moves.” Is that common sense? Of course it is. Those same statements would apply in any situation where one feared for their lives - such as an encounter with a wild animal. One shouldn’t have to fear for their lives just because they were pulled over for speeding. And I’m sorry, but a LEO “having a bad day” is never an excuse for creating a bad encounter with a civilian. Encounters like the one reported on in this article should never happen. Encounters where the LEO confuses his or her taser and firearm should never happen.
I served in the Marines. It was drilled into us over and over that mistakes in combat - even the smallest mistake - can cause lives to be lost. That same principal applies to law enforcement. It applies to anyone carrying a gun - including us. ONE mistake is too many.
I have concluded my commentary. Thanks