But how does him being an expert witness support his advice to talk to the cops without a lawyer? I would listen to his advice to improve my shooting skills but doing the cop’s job for him and talking without a lawyer present, NOT going to happen. Everyone else can do what they think is best for them.
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I think it’s a damned if you do damned if you don’t situation.
If LEOs show up and all you’ll tell them is I won’t answer any questions till my lawyer arrives, it can make their job of securing the scene harder since they have no information to go on aside from what they can see. I also suspect that not saying anything is going to create a much more confrontational experience and potentially lead to some increased negative scrutiny.
But if the LEOs show up and you say something along the lines of - I had to defend myself, there were two attackers, ones is over there, the other one ran out the back door, I’m willing to answer all your questions but I’m really shaken up right now so I’m going to wait till I can do it with a lawyer present - that gives them some important information they really need in the moment and shows you are willing to cooperate.
The concern is that in a stressed out state once you start talking you may not stop when you need to. So I think there can be a paper thin line between saying too much and saying too little.
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That’s why I wont say anything and want a lawyer. Silence can’t be used against you. At least that is what the constitution says.
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It can’t be used against you in a court of law. But that doesn’t mean it won’t bias the opinions of those who are deciding whether or not they need to take you to court.
Not saying that your approach isn’t the best. In many cases it probably will be. But in some it could work against you.
For myself it would likely depend on the situation. If everything is obvious and the incident has completely ended with all the attackers accounted for I might not say anything unless I had my pistol in my holster in which case I would inform the officers where it is and ask how they want me to proceed. But if the situation is potentially ongoing I would definitely inform the officers that potential threats are still out there. Regardless my goal would be to say the minimum I felt necessary to ensure everyone’s safety until I could consult with a lawyer.
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He did not say to give them a confession. He said it’s ok to point out evidence like empty shells on the ground, and some other small info like your name, identifying your companions if any, etc. This is actually very much in line with what the USCCA recommends and teaches members to do and what is in the instructions on the back of the membership card. But then we say: “I’ll cooperate fully but I need my attorney with me before I speak any further.” and shut up.
We all forget that Mas is giving us the benefit of a lifetime of experience, training and research he has conducted to become a recognized expert. He talks to more lawyers, cops and victims in one year that any of us will do in 3 lifetimes.
But the fact is that we will never agree with anyone 100%, and there are always personal factors that affect our application of information when we consider it against OUR life and circumstances.
The golden rule I give my students: Listen to everyone, THEN decide for yourself what is fertilizer and what is just plain BS.
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All the instructions and script are printed on the back of the USCCA membership card so we don’t have to guess or screw it up when the poop hits the fan.
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We just need to remember to pull the card out after the adrenaline dump!
In practice I occasionally try to run through the whole scenario - Stop the threat. Check for other threats. OK the scene appears clear. Reholster if safe to do so. Call 911 and tell them to send LEOs an ambulance and identify myself and what I’m wearing. Hang up. Call USCCA (I have the number saved in my phone). Remain alert to new threats till LEOs arrive. But I haven’t actually built in the muscle memory of pulling out the card and reading the back again. I should add that to the routine.
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I remind members to do that in class and every time the subject comes up. Saying the words out loud helps.
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Again not my job and I’m not trained in doing such things. The cops are trained. I am not putting Mas down in any way. I simply disagree on how to handle the cops. To thine own self be true. I know for a FACT that if I start talking I won’t stop and will say the wrong thing. If I end up in jail for a few hours or overnight. So be it. I will call the USCCA hotline and zip my lips. We can carry on once my designated lawyer arrives.
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I will follow their orders keeping my hands where they can see them at all times. You probably trust them more than I do. I’ve worked as a prison guard and if the cops are in the slightest way like them, me talking aint going to happen until I get. Lawyer.
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No Officer Sir I WILL NOT let go of my new ‘Walker’ I will fall over !
(3) Potential USCCA Lawyers pre-programmed in my phone, ready to go.
Hands will be empty when da Poe=poe arrives, hands on my head.
" Dead guy there and there, This is MY HOUSE these were their weapons they
tried to KILL ME with. Lawyer is on the way. Can’t say anymore, That’s a nice GLOCK
you have there. Thank you. 
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Good idea. My current phone, had now 8-10 years, is starting to not work properly. When I get my next, I will program the USCCA hotline number into it.
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Sir William One-ninty-one,
I may have said this before…
This is just a suggestion.
What I did was I e-mailed all (3) Lawyers in my area
Told them about me, gave pertinent information about to keep on file
(so they won’t ignore my call after the SHTF!)
and won’t be coming in blind
(2) got back to me, (1) didn’t. He will be the last choice
so I already avoided a possible wasted call…
I am CONFIDENT in the other (2) Lawyers, That helps A LOT!
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Good thinking ahead. As I have previously stated, I have spent time behind bars 8 hours a day for a number of years so a few hours or a night aint nut’n. What’s funny is inmates used to tease us by saying you’re just as locked up boss as we are.
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Let the lawyers know you are a USCCA member. NOTHING gets a lawyer out of bed in the middle of the night as fast as knowing they have a big fat retainer coming their way and they don’t have to wonder if you can afford them. This came out of MY lawyer’s mouth.
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Yes Sir I did my USCCA# , both phones, my e-mail
address, D.o.b. and the fact that they were USCCA lawyers only helped.
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On my USCCA dashboard that the USCCA gets on screen when I call is my lawyer. I interviewed a number of attorneys here. At the time USCCA had 2 attorneys in network here (both from same firm) and their lack of knowledge was concerning to me so I researched the best 2A and SD attorneys here, contacted them and convinced them that being in network USCCA attorneys was a value add to their practice.
So I have my preferred attorney # attached to my Critical Response needs.
Hopefully I never need it, but if I do I know I am getting someone I already know and trust.
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