Legal but Ignorant and Plan Old Stupid

Makes no sense to me.

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Maybe he was

  1. testing the waters
  2. suicide by cop
  3. going to SLC
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We had a guy do it at one of the local Malls, he was joined by several police officers that spent their time explaining to the masses that it was in fact legal to carry a loaded AR around…

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From that short clip, I saw nothing indicating any kind of threat. Yes, carrying like that is not typical, but as you stated, it is legal.

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There may be times and situations that we would be perfectly legal but at the same time present ourselves and our cause in a negative light. We have enough problem with press presenting us in a negative manner. Why give them more fuel for the fire? If it was a protest of some sort and I don’t know there are better ways. Maybe organize a writing campaign to the political powers in your local area or something.

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He is not me, and if we are here criticizing him, we are no better than the media you state would criticize him. We do not need to agree whether or not it is “smart” to do that, but we can’t go around and criticize everything about other firearm owners. We need to be a cohesive group.

I don’t own rifles, so I don’t care how they are regulated or whether your 30-round AR mag is banned. Do I state you do not need one, so ban them? No. I stand for our RKBA, whether or not I agree you have a “need” for whatever you own or want to own. Same goes for OC and CC, chambered or not, etc.

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I will on some level respectfully disagree with you. As I said I don’t know what his intentions were for sure but at the same time if I have a friend who is behaving in a manner that is irresponsible or not smart, don’t I have an obligation as his friend to say something?

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Did he commit a crime? I presume not, or that definitely would have made the news. So, you are maligning him because he “might have nefarious intentions”? CC used to be considered only what criminals did. You might have nefarious intentions. Maybe NYS and other states have that require character references are right.

It is only your opinion that what he was doing was “irresponsible or not smart”. Normalizing carry is “smart”. Seeing people OC and not committing criminal acts “normalizes” OC. The police in this instance had no issues with it - they did not even send an officer over.

[Edit] At Lobby Day this year in Virginia, there were probably at least 2 dozen people OC about half had AR/AK carbines/rifles and pistols. No one around maligned them and the police did not pay any closer attention to them than to anyone else there. But then, we were all there to support our RKBA.

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He may not be committing a crime. Though in most jurisdictions I suspect he is one subtle muzzle swing away from a brandishing charge.

If it was someone walking around with a rifle slung over their shoulder I wouldn’t think twice. But I know I would be on red alert if I saw someone walking around like that through my neighborhood with a rifle in the ready position. From a capability of deployment stand point it is the same as walking around with your hand visibly on your pistol grip. That would be considered brandishing in many if not most places. It kind of seems like the same thing as a driver revving his engine at a red light when someone walks in front of them in a cross walk. It might not be illegal but it is intentionally threatening.

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Dave I can see this is something that emotionally charges you but I’m not going to apologize for my view. You have every right to disagree with me and I’ll defend that.

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This is what I was thinking also. That does look darn close to brandishing. And I too would be on alert if I came across this. Like you said over the shoulder is one thing,this to me would be scary.

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“draws or exhibits a dangerous weapon in an angry and threatening manner or”
From Utah Code.
Does this guy look “Threatening” or “Angry”? I think he does.

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When I was in Guatemala several years ago I could always tell when we were in a sketchy area when I saw the military or police walking this way with their rifles. They didn’t stand still for more than a moment or two. Hands on their weapons in a shooting grip, constantly moving and looking for threats/targets.

In safe areas the rifles would be slung over their shoulder or they’d either have their arms crossed resting on top of the rifle or down at their sides or in their pockets.

I don’t know if this guy is angry or not. But the vibe I get is someone that is looking for trouble. Whether he is the trouble or he is searching for other trouble makers I cannot say. But given that I can’t tell and he is obviously ready to fire at a moments notice I would have to consider him to be a threat and at the very least would get myself and family out of his line of sight ASAP.

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Something similar took place like this here in az a while back. a dude decided to take a stroll through phoenix’s airport . it might not make sense but if you are keeping by the law and not recklessly carrying your weapon, then exercise that right i guess.

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I’m not a big fan of carrying just to make a statement. But at least from the limited video provided in the airport case it looks like he was carrying it on his shoulder and then placed it down. At least he wasn’t walking around with a ready to fire grip on the firearm. Some in the anti self defense crowd may not notice the difference but I think it is a very important distinction.

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Would I do what this man is doing? No.

Would I be on high alert if I saw someone doing this? Yes.

Would I stick around with my family when someone is doing this? No.

Do I know a person or two who would do something like this? Yeah. I might.

I personally don’t have enough information to really assess or have a problem with this.

YMMV

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You’re all so cynical. Maybe he’s your new guardian angel.

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Not emotionally charged. Yes, our opinions are different. That I have no issue with. What I have issue with is your expressing he is somehow a nefarious person because he is OC. As I stated, years ago, CC was generally considered similarly. That is what I have issue with. You are implying he is a criminal just because you do not like OC - that is wrong.

I don’t agree that he appeared threatening, but we only have a few seconds of video in which to judge his actions. I rest on the police did not believe it warranted even sending an officer over.

[Edit] Yes, being situationally aware is always a good option, and leaving the area if you feel unsafe is wise. I always scrutinize anyone, including LEOs, when I see a firearm - that I believe is normal behavior.

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Marc Victor, Steinmetz’s lawyer, said the county attorney’s decision validated his client’s actions and proved he never broke the law.

“To charge him with a crime when he didn’t commit a crime would be outrageous,” Victor said. “And so, it’s a fair and reasonable result because it doesn’t put any kind of requirements that are onerous on my client.”

But Montgomery [Maricopa County Attorney Bill Montgomery] said the Second Amendment must be exercised properly.

“For every right, there is a responsibility, and for those of us who not only have a duty to protect and safeguard the Second Amendment but also believe in its responsible exercise, he did absolutely nothing for responsible gun ownership,” Montgomery said (in his opinion only).

What he did for legal firearm owners is show that if the government does not like something, you will be punished regardless of whether or not it is illegal. Keep telling yourself it is bad to carry firearms, it is bad to be a firearm owner. That is exactly what they want you believe and feel. Or stand for your rights and become active. Call, visit, write, email, etc., your reps and let them know you believe in your rights. I essentially had one state that I was a criminal. He is now a former rep. Your voice does matter, and it does count.

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The threatening part to me is that he was walking with a shooting grip on the firearm. I’m not used to seeing people walking around with a shooting grip on their firearms unless they are in an active conflict zone or are preparing themselves to pull the trigger while at the range or out hunting when they think their prey might be nearby.

Wouldn’t you be very suspicious and concerned if you saw someone walking down the sidewalk with their pistol in a two handed shooting grip even if the barrel was pointing down? I think many people would likely be suspicious of someone simply walking with their pistol drawn but at their side in a one handed shooting grip. That is just not normal behavior out on the street unless maybe you are a gang member or law enforcement in pursuit of a criminal. Why should someone with a shooting grip on a rifle be perceived as less of a potential threat than that?