My question isn’t about the political aspects surrounding ICE, but rather about self-defense, during a time of heated tensions, if an individual, who may or may not be identified as an ICE agent, wearing a mask etc. stops you, for no apparent reason, or approaches your vehicle while stopped at a light or sight, and pulls a gun on you, demanding of you to exit your vehicle, as shown on some of the videos floating around. Wouldn’t that be considered a threat that could legally justify use of a firearm as self-defense? – not that I necessarily expect that to happen, but one never knows.
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Welcome to the community!
IMO I’ll find out the reason quickly if they identified themselves as law enforcement or not.
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Kristine,
Trained law enforcement officers will only approach you with gun drawn in a felony stop situation, where they already have enough information on the situation to expect you are already a felon. I suspect the videos you have seen are not random identity checks, but are situations where ICE teams are arresting specific, known illegals who already have dangerous criminal history before coming into the country. Remember, that is the focus of the ICE arrests.
As for your question … if a total stranger with no basis for felony arrest pulls a gun on you, yes, that normally would meet the standard for self defense. However, if that gun is already up and pointed at you, there is no way you can draw and fire fast enough to counter the attack. Your life depends on how you comply at the moment and go forward in the encounter. John Correia in his Active Self Protection videos on YouTube, as well as in his training classes, has repeatedly said it is never good to “draw from the drop,” unless you know the attackeer already plans to shoot you, a situation generally on law enforcement and gang baangers wil face.
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Martial arts training, wherein I learned a lot of defensive techniques, many which included situational awareness, and to trust my gut, basically, how to not be there, where it was stepping out of way of a physical attack, or not placing myself in risky situations. – So, no I wouldn’t pull my weapon if a weapon is in my face.
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My question is mostly hypothetical, I’ve interacted with ICE, on a professional bases, years ago, prior to them being weaponized as they are presently. – that being said, it is in theory that they are supposed to be only grabbing people who are previously identified, however there is a lot of information, that may or may not be real, that indicates that it is people who have been profiled based upon things like skin color and or nationality. While there is also a fair amount of information that shows that many ICE agents, do not identify themselves.
Then as is suggested, ICE agents raiding apartments, pulling people from their cars, etc without identifying themselves.
curiously – the raids and police actions of cleaning up crime are not being done being enacted on neighborhoods where there is high levels of criminals, like the jokes of East LA, or places like East Oakland, California,
I grew up in the what is considered as part of the bay area, in California, but haven’t lived their now for close to 30 years. I personally don’t worry too much about groups like ICE. I presently live in Northern, Nevada, where 1 out of 20 people have CCW’s and who knows how many open carry, without CCW’s politically we are purple state, So, as a state, we are not considered a political target.
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Please provide us with sources to this information.
Open carry is more common in Lyon, Douglas, and Churchill than Washoe county.
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(Heavy sigh) Another one found us…
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If it’s not real, it’s misinformation.
ICE don’t grab people randomly based on skin color or ethnicity.
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@Kristine4 Welcome to the community!
We are responsibly armed Americas. We know. If law enforcement stops us with a gun drawn we know to comply.
Welcome to the community.
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Allowing law enforcement agencies to enforce the law is far from “weaponization”.
Oddly enough, crossing the border illegally is illegal. An illegal act is also known as a “crime”. One who commits a “crime” is known as a “criminal”.
Just for funsies, a hypothetical example of “weaponization” of an agency, or agencies, would be something like creating a hoax, or false story, of someone with a political ambition colluding with a foreign nation in order to sway that political election. Of course, I’m not saying that would ever happen, just providing a hypothetical example.
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Another totally hypothetical scenario would be coercing someone into violating a signed NDA that they accepted payment for…. Then creating felony charges for effectively putting the wrong memo on the payment checks.
Again, not that anyone would ever do that.
Or imbedding literally hundreds of “agents” in a crowd of people as rabble rousers in order to create chaos and the illusion of an insurrection while refusing the national guard for assistance…..
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Enforcing the law.
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That would be a major waste of time if it was true (which it’s not). For example, at one point, Los Angeles had the 2nd largest Mexican population in the world, Mexico City being first. The idea that ICE would be stopping every Mexican in the hopes that they’d find one who is hear illegally (needle in the haystack) is laughable.
What they’ve been doing, which is a far more efficient use of their time, is going after the ones who have been arrested for criminal activity, where the arrest records give them a specific location to find the criminal. They’ve also gone after the ones who have been denied their request to remain in the US, with the paperwork giving their location. Also, they’ve partnered with local law enforcement, targeting criminal activity where their is a high probability of criminals associated with cartels who are here illegally. If they have credible evidence that Tren de Aragua has infested an apartment building, then going door-to-door to round them up is feasible. But they’re not going around searching apartment buildings randomly. Nor are they stopping cars randomly. They’re using gov’t databases to target specific individuals and using reports of criminal activity that have a high probability of illegal alien involvement.
I’ve actually got a LOT of respect for these ICE officers. Not only are they frequently going up against armed criminals, but they’re also being targeted by leftist lunatics for doing their job. It’s a dangerous job just on its own. But to have people like Newsolini wanting lunatics to be able to identify the agents so they can target their wives & children is insane. Who would want that job???
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Armed or unarmed situations are not adjudicated on the side of the road or in a parking lot.
There appears to be an undertone of “ICE” is out to get me.
I don’t share that presumption.
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A local, state, or federal law enforcement officer is not going to act like that. Quit watching mainstream media and quit imagining scenarios based on leftist victimhood ideology.
ICE is not arresting or detaining citizens at gunpoint. Weapons are drawn only if there is a threat of violence. If your citizenship is questioned, ICE has the tools available to quickly ascertain your citizenship and/or immigration status.
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I would expect that open carry is more common in all counties except those containing major cities, Washoe (Reno/sparks) and Clark (Las Vegas) Counties, this being based upon cities verse more rural areas.. Carson City, is weird, in that it’s the capital, then of course one can not forget Storey county, where I’ve met Californian’s open carying
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me, no.. I’m not particularly worried..
I’m no more worried about “Evil Dems” or “Crazed Maga’s” “ Mental instable LGBT” or whatever else the latest catch is.
people are people, regardless what political or religious beliefs, who they love or how they where born etc.. honestly I wish more people would remember that, and think of their fellow as a Human 1st then American.. rath than whatever label they choose to assign.. I think we would have far less problems
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my question is spawned from someone on social media, saying that if an ICE agent pulled a gun, on them they would responed in kind. bring the hypothetical question if someone is not clearly identified, and raids your house in the midle of the night or in effect tries to pull you from your vehicle.. is it resonble to respond with deadly force..
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