That’s where most of us are Dawn. We’re not out looking to hurt anyone, only to prevent harm to ourselves and others. When that forces us to use force or deadly force it’s not a choice, it’s a necessity.
Proven by the fact that many of us have been owners for decades without shooting anyone.
So, now we can argue we should hunt with AR’s because the deer are rising up
Let me start by saying I’m not an AR fan. I’ve had them, even shot competition with them a long time ago, but they’re just not my thing. The real problems with the AR in our society are in most cases based on a lack of knowledge by the public. We get into a “perception is reality” venue,and that boys and girls is the problem we face right now. The negative outlook is because:
- Every time some two legged animal commits an atrocity it seems the AR/AK is the weapon of choice;
- In every “action film “ you see, again these are the implements being used;
- The look “just like” the weapons are soldiers and our enemies carry;
- The media continually refers to them as “assault weapons” or “machine guns”;
- The media has convinced the public (including folks that should know better that the lowly 5.56 is a “death ray” on par with a Starwars phaser (reality being vastly different as a .243 has more ft lbs of energy @200 yards than a 5.56 at the muzzle. The old 30-06 has more @400 yards than a 5.56 @ the muzzle.in fact, a 165 gr .30 out of an ‘06has 300/350 ft lbs more energy @400 than the 5.56. That’s the equivalent to both a 5.56 AND a 9mm combined, yet the press talks about how powerful the 5.56 is😏.
- People with no knowledge hear and see all this negative material and come to believe it’s true.
This perception, and the highly “visible” nature of the AR platform has caused the looney left to focus on the AR system (I’m old enough to remember when AR’s were scarce,then the grabbers focused on those awful evil revolvers). Long story short there is a tough battle coming if these things are to remain available. Don’t think the grabbers will be after yours or “can’t” take them? Talk to an Australian about what can and has happened. I hate to be doom and gloom but it doesn’t look good from here.
I actually had an opportunity to talk to someone about this just the other day. They asked the question “Why do you need an AR?”, but they really asked it, not in a rhetorical or snarky way. They actually wanted to know “why”. So below is a paraphrase of the answer I gave them.
In any situation where you would use a handgun, if one or more of the following is beneficial then an AR is a good choice.
- More accuracy
- More power
- More controlability
- Less penetration through walls
- Ability to be used by multiple household members
Compared to a handgun, it will be easier for the rifle user to place more accurate shots. At close distance maybe that means a more precise shot to crucial pumps 'n pipes, at longer distances it may mean a hit instead of a miss altogether.
If you need to shoot repeatedly and quickly, because the bad guy didn’t go down on the first shot or maybe there is more than one bad guy, the rifle with its 4 points of contact is going to be easier to keep those sights on target and continue to deliver accurate fire.
If you miss with an AR15, the smaller mass of the bullet (55-77gr vs 115-230gr depending on handgun caliber) is more affected by resistance from drywall, doors, bricks, furniture, etc. So while anything capable of being lethal will definitely go through at least several layers of drywall, the AR15 round will go through less and in some cases it’s a lot less.
A 6ft tall person can grab the same AR that a 5ft tall person can, and adjust it with just a few clicks on an adjustable stock. Because of it’s light weight (typically 6-8lbs fully loaded), that same small statured person can easily handle and maneuver an AR and be able to place accurate shots one after another. That means there isn’t just “one person” responsible for defense of the home.
And to also tie in magazine bans… The criminal who raids your house knows when he is coming and will prepare accordingly. They may be armed, and if they are armed they may be carrying spare mags. Whereas you, the law-abiding citizen awoken in the middle of the night, will only have whatever is in the gun. Where are you tucking spare mags in whatever outfit you sleep in (those who sleep in their birthday suits have even LESS options)? No matter how fast my mag changes are, it won’t matter since I likely won’t be carrying any spares in my boxers.
Having said all that, it doesn’t mean that an AR is the “best” answer in all scenarios, but it is certainly a really good option capable of being effective and safe.
You may want to relook at the penetration issue-a rifle slug will has substantially more penetration that a handgun, pretty much regardless of cartridge size. A .224 slug @ 3000 FPS will go a LOT further than a .45 @ 875 FPS.
Hey @Dwayne indeed I’ve looked very hard at this particular issue. I’ll dump a bunch of links at the bottom, but if you have evidence to the contrary I am 100% willing to listen to learn.
To be clear on my point, I am not saying 5.56/.223 won’t go through any interior walls. I am specifically saying that a typical 5.56mm/.223 round will go through less walls than will a handgun round of almost any caliber. It will slow down from the drag of drywall, insulation, etc faster than a handgun round will. The reason is physics, the smaller mass means it conserves less momentum as it passes through barriers. They will also start to tumble and keyhole pretty quickly leading to further loss of energy.
Obviously, ammo choices play a factor. Birdshot is at best marginally lethal unless its really close range, but it will barely go through one wall. Legit defensive buckshot will go through several walls, and slugs will go through a LOT of walls. Similarly, a “real” rifle round like .308, .30-06, etc will also keep going through a LOT of walls since they are as heavy as a pistol caliber and launched at similar speeds to 5.56/.223.
And while I have not found an official statement to the effect, there are many references on the internet (take with a pinch or two of salt) that this is one of the major reasons that professional door-kickers (like SWAT) switched from pistol caliber SMG like an MP5 to AR15/M4 platform.
Link dump is below…
“About .223 Penetration” by R.K. Taubert, former FBI
(referenced in link above, site seems to no longer work)
Gotta say that surprises me. The 5.56 is obviously carrying a lot more energy, so it has to be the slug design. I stand corrected. I’m always amazed the way the media touts the 5.56 as though it was a death ray, when in fact it’s a pretty mild Rifle cartridge. I’ve seen whistle pigs run off after a hit body hit with 5.56. Never, ever, so that when hit by a .220 Swift or heavier caliber.
This is the best point so far. This goes right along with limiting showering to 5 minutes(CA drought anyone?), idiotic power blackouts(again, CA), and not flushing the toilet for #1. You can justify it all with technical argument.
I was also a little surprised when I first heard it, and I’ve tucked it away in my bank of “info that comes in handy someday”. It especially comes in handy for “why do you need an AR?” conversations like this one. I did want to hear if you had contrary info though, as mine may be outdated or inaccurate, so it’s important to always be open to new data.
Its the physics of low mass of a typical 5.56/.223 round vs the higher mass of a typical handgun round. Usually 40-77gr vs 115-230gr. The higher mass projectile will retain it’s force more than the lower mass projectile will when going through barriers. This is laws of momentum. On top of that, also specific to 5.56/.223, those bullets are usually pretty likely to tumble which further reduces their energy.
It helps if you think of it as imagine throwing a baseball through a wall and then imagine throwing a bowling ball through a wall. If you were on the other side of the wall, you’d rather be hit by the thrown baseball than the bowling ball.
It’s also why a “real” rifle caliber like .308, .30-06, etc that fly off at similar velocities to 5.56/.223 but have 2x-4x the mass will just go through everything.
Also a note, that performance through walls is not usually related to performance through actual flesh (hunting or SD/HD), nor barriers like auto-glass, nor various types of armor.
My theory was that it had something to do with Jeff Gordon’s number being 24
Yes, many people don’t realize the Standard AR cartridge (Rem .223 or 5.56 NATO) utilizes basically the e bullet as the .22 long rifle cartridge. They think it is a large caliber behemoth…
ARs are easy to use and much more fun to shoot. Is your friend opposed to LEOs having ARs? There are documented instances of folk using AR15s in self-defense, so I hope this isn’t a debate about what people NEED…I can’t help but feel that there’s a reason why we occasionally hear stuff like this. It starts with the AR15 then eventually it’s nobody needs a handgun.
I would show him pictures of AR pistols, and 9mm carbines, and ask what he thinks.