Forget being conditioned, are we being challenged?

Ships approaching too close for comfort and seemingly innocent jets flying over D.C. coincidence or test runs? You decide!

Balloons in the past and no communications from the Communist Party!
I expect drones any second now!

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Cessna Citation. Very expensive private jet. Registered owner is ENCORE MOTORS OF MELBOURNE INC (Florida)
CEO: Barbara Rumpel
Barbara Rumpel is on the NRA board of directors for 2023. She also served on Donald Trump’s 2nd Amendment Coalition.
She is a big GOP donor.

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Soooo! They shot it down?!? I don’t need any more proof than that!

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FWIW when I see things about the Taiwan straight, I like to look at a map and remind myself that the Taiwan straight is pretty much in China, and China still considers Taiwan to be a rebel state they are at civil war with…and I wonder what the US would do if Chinese battle groups were sailing as close to California as the US is to China over there in the straight

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Shot it down? You mean the jet fighters traveling at Mach1+, firing flares at an unarmed civilian aircraft caused it to crash? Even though it looks bad no responsible prosecutor would bring charges under these circumstances. :wink:

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The only thing wrong with China’s perception is that The Chinese Communist Party NEVER had any de jure or de facto control over Taiwan. The CCP never even stepped foot on the island of Taiwan. So their claim of owning an island they never had control over, nor stepped foot upon is spurious at best. It would be like George Washington, in 1787, proclaiming the island of Cuba to be a “runaway province” that has rebelled against American rule.

Too many people all over the world have been brainwashed into believing that Taiwan actually belonged to the CCP simply because of geographical proximity. I guess France could use the same argument for the British Isles.

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Then ignore that entirely, and consider what actions we would expect the US Navy to take if China had task forces armed with nuclear weapons and carriers as close to California as we have in the Taiwan Straight

Just sayin’, it’s a bit of an interesting perspective/change of perception, maybe?

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I can assure you, carriers are not the problem! The Chinese are already here and there! They don’t need to be off our coast!
China has six ballistic submarines capable of delivering nuclear weapons to the U.S. without even being in our waters. In just the past couple of years they have advanced and doubled the distance of their missiles, from 5,000 miles to 10,000 miles.
We, on the other hand are capable of reaching 5,000 miles!

They have already been conducting deterrent patrols.
It’s a dark secret world down there!
The globe has always been a chess board!
We are there and they have always been here!
Now it comes down to who has the bigger balls! We all know the answer!
They wouldn’t challenge Trump. Today is a different day!
China doesn’t have to be a bully to win, we have a wimp on the field.

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But, what would the US do, or what would you expect the US to do, if a carrier battle group parked off the California coast as close as we are to China’s coast?

Doing that would be a challenge. The entire Taiwan straight is barely over 100 miles across. So in the middle ish let’s say you’re 60 miles from China.

What would we think and expect if a foreign battle group, or any foreign (let’s just say Chinese) surface warship, was 60 miles off the California coast?

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At best we would be in a state of “check”! Technically it would be the Kings Gambit and they intend to take control. Until someone decides otherwise.

That little stunt they pulled at sea the other day, should be taken as a warning. Civilians really don’t understand the military mind set. It’s like Jason Bourne, “they don’t make mistakes”.

Everything the Chinese are doing is calculated, from the balloons to the fighter jets to the ships at sea and the police stations and the purchase of farm land!

What’s making us second guess things is the weasel in office! He’s placed us in a very deadly situation. Our land is so rich, the Chinese want it now. The people in America are , shall we say, are “Bud Light” and in no shape to take on these highly disciplined killers!

The nuclear era is a unique situation. They don’t have to be 60 miles off the coast or 600. However, if the scenario you describe comes to fruition, their intentions are to strike and apply land forces. A show of force, such as a carrier strike group 60 miles off either coast calls for an equal show of force.
Again, “check”. Control is the key. Since you’re asking me Admiral Scott52. My failsafe point is 59.9 miles, blow them clean out of the water!
That’s not exactly the technical term, but prepare for battle!

If this were the case and we were not engaged in naval to naval exercises ( which is what’s happening now near Taiwan ) “battle stations, battle stations”!

Unfortunately we would or should preemptively strike . 60 miles is still considered international waters, had you said 11.9 miles, that’s an outright attack. Now you wouldn’t know it based on what we are seeing at our southern border! We are under attack.

We can be certain, if the Chinese navy shows up anywhere near our doorstep, with the right “leader”, we remain Americans. Today! Prepare to change your diet!

Just because there are 400, 000, 000 guns in US civilian hands, doesn’t mean sh#t against an adversary as disciplined as the Chinese. Their goal is to win, at all costs. It’s how we “used” to think!

We have no Commander in Chief. Trippy just face planted on national TV, not the first time he’s hit the deck! And for that, he’s going to show us, how stupid he can really be!

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FWIW, Barbara Rumpel was not on the plane that crashed. The AP has contacted her since the crash was reported.

Fox says the plane had 4 occupants: Rumpel’s daughter, 2-year-old granddaughter, a nanny, and the pilot.

The F16 pilots who responded report that the pilot was unresponsive. It sounds like a very sad case where the pilot had an emergency and 3 passengers died.

Washington DC area ‘explosion’ sound caused by military jets pursuing unresponsive plane before deadly crash | Fox News

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I am also wondering about a sudden loss of cabin pressure. It reminds me of the Payne Stewart crash years ago.

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I’m curious to see what they say. I don’t know enough about flying to speculate what happened. I can’t help but think if a pilot went down, I’d be able to at least get on the radio and ask for help. Perhaps everyone in the plane was offline?

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Still, the straight is international waters, whether China likes it or not. It almost makes me wonder if the Chinese navy has been ordered to be more aggressive with our warships. Maybe even to the point of causing a kinetic reaction from an American skipper. 150 yards is awfully close.

They are really probing the limits of how far this president can be pushed. With every non-reaction, China worries less about a US response if they invade Taiwan.

From the Chinese point if view, when will they ever have a better opportunity to take the island than right now?

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Yes indeed. That makes sense. My guess is that all the occupants were unconscious but more likely deceased. The depressurization theory fits the incident better than other alternatives.

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True. It’s just that China doesn’t recognize them as international waters. I don’t know what an equivalent would be… maybe if the U.S. claimed Cuba and therefore all the navigable waters between Florida and Cuba?

But I think you’re 100% right, China is testing us to see how we’ll respond.

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International laws (UNCLOS) delineate how much ocean a nation controls.

Territorial Seas is 12 nautical miles from the coastline. The Contiguous Zone extends another 12 nautical miles from the Territorial Seas. The Economic Exclusion Zone extends 200 nautical miles from the shoreline.

From Wikipedia: The territorial sea is regarded as the sovereign territory of the state, although foreign ships (military and civilian) are allowed innocent passage through it, or transit passage for straits; this sovereignty also extends to the airspace over and seabed below."

So any foreign navy can conceivably park a battle group 24 nautical miles off either of our coasts and still be in International Waters, untouchable, unless they show hostile intent.

Source: Territorial waters - Wikipedia

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Well, they could claim it due to having had royalty ruling it. So could the Germans, and most of the rest of the European countries. The Romans ruled England, and half of Scotland. So Italy would have a better claim for England than the Chinese do for Taiwan.

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Seems odd that there was only a pilot, no copilot on a $1.5 million plane. Air safety is all about redundancy.

Also odd, is that the plane was heading to New York, then did a complete 180 and headed back toward D.C.

Odd again, is that the plane crashed only about 10 min. after the fighters made contact with the plane, in a remote part of Virginia.

Only Rumpels’ daughter & granddaughter, and a nanny were passengers on a company jet. Rumpel herself is still alive to influence NRA policies.

A message sent, perhaps? We will never know.

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If only Brandon knew what sovereignty meant! I’d feel a little safer!

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