Really Dave… we are talking about a 4 year old and 2 year old… and the cases I mentioned are all regarding young children under 10 years old. Not teenagers. Yes there are many young kids that learn from a early age how to handle a firearm, keep it safe and maintain it. We’re not talking about that. I noted a specific case. Thanks for all the stats they are quite interesting. Take care.
Don
To which you also noted later that those “owners” were “prohibited” persons, not the “RESPONSIBLE (sic)” owners that you “emphatically urge” to keep firearms locked and unloaded, away from children (of which you did not mention ages, just children).
The message of firearm safety is good and proper. Your posts, having posted the same message, over one-hald dozen times, would seemly imply that “we” are the problem, which is not a valid point. Your points on storage have already been addressed and shown to be only your opinion.
So either your half-dozen+ posts were directed at us, in the belief that “we” are the irresponsible parties - many that have learned to properly, and safely handle and shoot firearms since young children - or your rage is misdirected.
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Only my opinion? Now you Dave, are saying that proper storage of a firearm when not on your person and where children are present is not the opinion of any if not all responsible Gun owners is of course ludicrous, offensive and ridiculous to say the least. I would love to hear from any responsible firearm owner that leaves their loaded weapon where a child can get at it… Don’t think I’ll have any responses as now your responses to me have become simply responses with zero content with the exception of trying to be annoying for the sake of being annoying and nothing more. Funny that you are the ONLY individual who has responded in the manner in which you have. There have, however, been quite a few very enlightening and educational and some even had great suggestions on how we can hopefully get the USCCA involved. Those responses were awesome. Dave, for the LAST time, my ORIGINAL post and those that followed were me ASKING and ENCOURAGING all responsible Gun owners to join in and try to help educate those firearm owners that are new owners and or not as responsible as they are. Plain and simple. Zero, nada, no reference to any negative comments regarding the responsible gun owner. Not sure what your motivation is or was Dave but it’s really gotten old. Arrivederci …
Where did I state that? Rather than question my “motivation”, presumeably you believe it to be somehow nefarious, respond to what is actually written.
Funny, that is not true.
Yet, this is your original post:
To which several of us explained that is only your opinion. The fact that you don’t know of a “legitimate” reason, means that if we do not agree, we are being unsafe, which is wholly invalid.
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Dave,
Let’s end this nonsense. You cannot begin a response based on the end of a post and omit the beginning. Unless it somehow was cut off and if so then you have my sincere apology. But I began by stating the concern I had over the numerous so called accidental shootings involving children. In my exact post I mentioned the 4 and 2 year old that were the I believe fifth occurrence in Atlanta that was on the news this past week. I merely asked and encouraged all of us responsible Gun owners to do their part in educating those Gun owners - new first time owners and or those that may not as yet be as responsible as you and I are. Encourage is not bashing as you stated in another reply, and asking for help is not accusing. Again and I am actually out of breath, if my intent to solicit every gun owners help with a very serious concern- the senseless death of young children, is or was misconstrued, then you and every other responsible gun owner has my sincere apology.
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This is the best idea you’ve had all week, @Don_J, and the most succinctly expressed. I heartily endorse your alleged desire to do so, though I doubt that you will, nor even can.
Don’t mistake the silence that surrounds you as accedence to your commentary. @Dave17 has shown the patience of a saint, persevering far more than anyone else in trying to help you understand the problems in your arguments.
It’s not just your faulty reasoning that is implicitly offensive, but also your sloppy spelling, poor sentence structure, and a merely casual acquaintance with grammar that make reading your single-paragraph, towers of words so monotonous and disagreeable.
So yes, yes please, stop.
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I can agree with that, and thank you for re-stating your post, even though you did not address my main issue of contention - being your not knowing a “legitimate” reason for not agreeing with your opinion.
I guess that you, like Dave, refuse to read the entire post and subsequent detailed explanation of that post. Is my punctuation correct so far? Never thought in my wildest imagination, that trying to engage all the responsible firearm owners, to help do what they can, to help new first time Gun owners and others they may know that may not be as responsible a gun owner as themselves, with important gun safety- would generate a negative response and false accusation from now two people. I’ve reread my initial post and all subsequent comments. Not once did I ever “bash” responsible gun owners, unless of course you interpret ASKING for their help and ENCOURAGING them to join me, and do whatever we could to help try to AVOID anymore unnecessary deaths of children, as my first post noting the 2 and 4 year old in Atlanta, that had such an occurrence. It was the fifth such “accident” in that area over the last few weeks. I have received numerous very positive replies and a few with some awesome ideas of how to take this safety concern a step further. I even noted that in one of my replies. One such comment said we should somehow engage gun dealer/gun stores with ranges, etc., to have them do a simple bridge- alla the McDonalds script that says would you like fries and a drink to go with your hamburger- have those gun dealers make a simple bridge- do you have a safe for your firearm or can I show you a few that we sell… Then another individual said we should try and engage our USCCA to get involved and pull this altogether. That would be awesome.
Apparently, you do not read posts, but respond to what you believe you “think” someone has posted. I have read your entire posts, but you do not make it easy with your punctuation, sentence and mono-paragraph structure.
which you stated were not due to the responsible firearm owners you are bashing in your posts, but due to those that are “prohibited” persons. Why do you keep posting your comments here, to what you presumeably assume are “responsible” firearm owners, unless you really believe we are not such persons?
You further claim we should reach out and teach those that are “less” responsible, even though you were told that most of us are either certified trainers or actually do teach others in less formal ways. Who is it that you are admonishing with your posts, if not us that are who you claim you want us to be?
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Why do you keep blaming punctuations.? You as well as everyone else 100% knew the intent of my post… Hell I explained at least 10 times and yet you continue to base your replies on grammar. Again, I was not aware that we were be graded on our grammar… but on the content we submit. There is zero ambiguity in my post, nor in my countless explanations of that post. Nothing you say regarding punctuation will change the true plea for help from the responsible gun owner community that I both ASKED for and ENCOURAGED. So, how about this… I will do a much better job with my grammar-punctuation and structure of any further posting so there is never again this type of response. If I am not perfectly clear to everyone, then that’s my bad. I do believe in my heart, that I, along with quite a few others, only goal was to engage the responsible gun owner family to do all we can to help, whenever possible, try to prevent these completely preventable tragedies. I will end by ASKING you to be a help in accomplishing this goal. I’ll also humbly apologize for what you say is the reason why my post may have been misinterpreted and misunderstood. My sincere wishes for a great 2021.
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Where did I “blame” your punctuation? I only mentioned in my last post that you make it difficult, due to your grammar, to follow and understand what you are stating. I did not state I did not understand nor follow your tirades. I did post my disagreement with your tirades, however you have yet to address any of my issues with your opinion.
Yet, here you are with your mono-paragraph posting, yet, again. I will politely assume you are not this ignorant.
Where I have repeatedly stated that you are addressing a group that is comprised mostly of those that are certified trainers, informal trainers, and many that have known firearm safety and how to shoot at very young ages, where your angst is misplaced. If you want to address those that you agreed are the cause, “prohibited” firearm owners, advocate in the prisons where they reside.
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A panda walks into a café. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.
“Why?” asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes towards the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.
“I’m a panda,” he says at the door. “Look it up.”
The waiter turns to the relevant entry in the manual and, sure enough, finds an explanation.
" Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots, & leaves. "
– From Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation by Lynne Truss, (c) 2004
If you don’t understand, there’s simply no point in further attempts to explain this to you. Grammar is important, punctuation is important. They are the standards by which we accurately convey our thoughts and intentions.
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What issues? I thought that by now and the countless replies I’ve made, some in great detail that I had made myself crystal clear. If that is not the case, then I not sure what else I can say to you. I regret that you are still having an issue with my post. To be perfectly clear… there have been no tirades. Just like there has been no bashing of responsible gun owners. For the last time, here is what I said and meant: There have been a rash of children in the Atlanta area, shown on the nightly news cast, that have been involved in handgun related accidents and even fatalities. I believe I mentioned roughly five such cases over the past few weeks. Sadly and in most cases, unwarranted, the media is quick to cast blame on all of us firearm owners. As it turns out, the shooting involving the four and two year old was due to a prior convicted felon, who had the firearm illegally and was arrested because he tried to cover up the entire thing. The other so called accidents involved handguns that were loaded and left where a child could get at it and did. My post simply asked and then encouraged the responsible gun owner community to do all they could to help educate and encourage new first time handgun owners and anyone they may know that is not as responsible as they are and try to help them get to that level. Together if we all join forces, we can hopefully help avoid or at least limit child related accidents. I am not referring to adult children as one person responded and I immediately answered them. Another individual came up with an awesome idea regarding getting gun dealers/stores involved by encouraging them to make a simple bridge to perhaps purchasing a safe if they do not own one. Life is extremely hectic these days, more so for some than others. A simple distraction can have catastrophic consequences. If a loaded firearm is locked up in your safe… a quick opening safe for easy acquisition, it serves two purposes- first the handgun is kept away from a child and second, you can still access it in mere seconds. You have my sincere apology for my not using proper grammar, proper punctuation, etc. I recognize that in failing to do so and write more clearer, I would have had no confusion from that post. I do appreciate the feedback and I will try to do better in the future. All I am asking for and encouraging responsible firearm owners to do is help… Maybe visit your gun range and or gun store and discuss with them a very simple process they could put in place regarding firearm safes… Heck, a minute or two if their time may just generate some additional sales… Looks like a win win to me. Take care.
The negligence, whether the gun is loaded or not, is leaving it accessible to others. If you gun is not firmly in your hand, or not on your hip in a holster, better yet a level 2 or higher retention holster, lock it up in your gun safe, a safe that requires a combination, not a key. There is no place you can hide a gun that a child or a burglar cannot find.
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Thank you James. I so much appreciate your feedback. I hope you have a great day and an awesome 2021. Take care.
Don
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Maybe I can change the direction of this thread. Having lived in Atlanta almost 20 years I can say without any doubt that the news from there is very anti-firearm. The AJC and local news journalists will paint any firearm event in the worst possible light. We should never forget that so that we do not over react to their reports.
It would be interesting, at least to me, to actually read the 4 or 5 cases referred to. What part of Atlanta did they happen in? Did the child actually shoot themselves? What was the home environment? Questions like these are usually not reported.
It is my opinion, that people who are generally responsible and become new firearm owners will read and understand safety precautions. They already child proofed, as much as possible, their homes. They used car seats. They don’t leave children in locked hot cars. In short they are not stupid and not hard to reach with safety precautions. There is a segment of our society that you simply can not force to follow common sense guidelines.
Without getting long winded about this we should not lose sight of the target audience. We should be sure the message reaches them and that we are NOT just preaching to the choir. In my work days I always did my best to insure my department budget plan addressed real problems, had a clear plan of how it would solve problems, and that my budget could support it.
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Thank you William. You make great points. My initial post was simply to ask and encourage all the responsible gun owners ( since this is a USCCA site) to use what they know to help others that may not be quite up to their standard of care, safety, and proper securing - (owning, using a safe) of their firearm. In the shooting incident I noted in Atlanta, the reason for my post because it was the fifth such incident over the past few weeks- the four year old child shot the two year old child. Thank GOD he survived. In this case the so called owner of the firearm was a prior felon and thus prevented by law from owning a gun, he tried to cover up this accident and was arrested. In the other incidents, of which there was very little detail released, there were fatalities. The reason for my post was actually two fold: first to hopefully engage (I asked and encouraged) all responsible Gun owners which I felt pretty certain was my captive audience, to do all we can to help others that may be new to gun ownership- first time Gun buyers, and or simply not as responsible a gun owner as we are. Second: Atlanta like so many other places jump at the chance to spread anti gun propaganda before the smoke clears from the firing of the gun. Depending on which tv station you watch dictates how the story is told.(spun) As a Veteran who served way back in the mid 70’s, I get so upset by the constant jump on the band wagon mentality, the flavor of the month club political musical chairs game that plaques us on a daily basis. It sickens me when lies and or simply misleading information is given to the public that days or weeks later is completely debunked- however the damage was done and little if any admitting of misinformation is ever stated. If it is, it’s usually too late to have any impact. Can’t tell you how many arguments I’ve had over firearms - way more these last few years than the prior 10 combined… Your comments are on point and appreciated greatly. I was hoping that if each of us (responsible firearm owners) could help just one person, and those we help, in turn helped just one person, the impact regarding safety could be quite substantial. In hind sight I wish my initial post was better constructed - especially my punctuation and overall grammar- so used to texting my kids and grandkids that get annoyed with me, even chuckle at me because I write my texts out… don’t use all the texting jargon and million abbreviations. But I now know better regarding this USCCA Club site. I’ll do better the next time. Every time I engage in an disagreement with those who claim guns kill people. That with strict gun control we stop all the senseless shooting and killings - I try my best to remain calm and explain that any gun restrictions you institute, will only have an impact on law abiding citizens, who are not the problem. Criminals will always get firearms, we all know this. I then tell them this or email or text them this quick statement someone sent me a few years ago… I thought it was awesome, as it sure helped me with some of my arguments.
“If guns kill people, then I guess Pencils misspell words, Cars drive drunk, and Spoons make people fat”
Again, my sincere thanks for your very informative and helpful(to me) comments William. Take care and have a great 2021
Don
Also, when looking at the rise of accidents in the area one has to remember the 3 million plus new gun owners. The latest numbers showing the majority being women many single moms with little or no training. I would suggest that is the reason for the increase. That is a lot of untrained new gun owners many who never thought about owning a gun till they day they bought one.
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Michael,
Thank you for your feedback and the statistics that really emphasize how truly important we (responsible Gun owners) are to this alarming situation.
Just think, if each of us starts by engaging in conversation with our favorite gun store-range, and showed them how a simple process could not just help in our efforts to reduce these preventable child Gun related tragedies we discussed, but at the same time potentially help generate additional revenue for the store via an increase in gun safe sales. Thanks again Michael. Have a great 2021.
Don
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