Hmmm keep an unloaded firearm for protection? Why not go all the way for safety’s sake. Keep unloaded mags, ammunition in the box & keep them all in separate safes with different combos/keys. I wish you well…
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Thanks for moving this up the chain! If the USCCA, maybe in cooperation with some other National groups, can come up with a program that includes materials and resources for store owners I’ll gladly volunteer to present them to the store owners in my area.
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I question how many of those incidents involved legal firearm owners. I have read my fair share of these types events where the “owner” was not legally “allowed” to possess a firearm. If one is not law-abiding, one is not likely to follow firearm safety rules, either.
I believe @OldGnome and @Alces_Americanus were politely raising the issue of your comments, which seemed to suggest that we are irresponsible or just bludgeoning us on our carelessness. I am quite certain others were thinking similarly, as was I, but decided it was not worth raising the issue.
Yes, we all should practice safe handling and storage, but as was pointed out, that is one, a hot-button issue; and two, safe handling/storage depends on each individual’s situations, needs, etc. It is like those that believe in having firearms with external safeties and those that do not. There is no “right” answer, only an individual preference.
The CDC stats on accidental deaths by firearm does not bear out that firearm owners are unsafe. The percentages and actual numbers have been declining ever since the CDC began recording those stats, even with the vast increase in population and firearms.
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If you read my original post and then my reply to the questioned intent, you will see a very clear picture of what my ONLY goal was. I specifically ASKED, encouraged those responsible Gun owners to help educate anyone they may know that could in fact benefit from some guidance. I also said that the irrepressible gun owners shown on the news cast where a 4 year old shot a 2 year old and in this case the owner was a prior convicted felon who cannot have a Gun, and tried to cover up his carelessness and was caught. Sadly, this was not the only occurrence like this. In the Atlanta area there have been numerous instances just like this one… and there have been some deaths. My SOLE INTENTION of my post that I wrote due to this rash of “accidents”that were ALL PREVENTABLE, was to bring attention to how important gun safety is… you should never leave a loaded weapon anytime anywhere a child can get at it… Plain and simple. I was moved to ask for help from our great community of RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS, to reach out and when appropriate offer guidance on gun safety to anyone who may benefit from that help. I never said for everyone to lock up an unloaded gun… if you have a firearm for your own protection or then protection of your family it should be, when not on your person, hopefully in a quick access safe… there a many out there. I am a long time concealed carry licensed individual and have these very quick access safes… having been around for awhile, serving in the military way back in the mid 70’s, I’ve seen my fair share of avoidable even preventable accidents involving firearms. All I am asking is for the responsible owners to help those owners that could benefit from their guidance. I still try to learn something new and helpful everyday… it just hit a nerve when I watched this story involving the 4 & 2 year old. Anyway, thanks for your input. I have received quite a few very supportive notes and some awesome ideas on how we may be able to engage our USCCA with gun stores, etc. to implement cross selling to include offering a safe to a new gun owner (offer to everyone that purchases a gun- but the responsible gun owner who is buying perhaps their third or fourth gun probably already owns a gun safe… or two) also bridge to offer training if needed and then the protection the USCCA OFFERS… this would be, in my mind a “COMPLETE SALE”
Thanks again. Appreciate your feedback… I appreciate everyone’s feedback… forcing me to clarify my intent earlier today has actually helped strike some xtra activity and comments I learned good things from. You have a great day and an awesome 2021…
Don
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Since we’re on the topic of irresponsible behavior, I’ll bet you a quarter these guys didn’t attend a gun safety course:
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Agree 100%. Hope we can keep communicating on important issues in the future. I appreciate your feedback and points of view. Take care and stay safe. Have a great 2021.
Don
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Yes, keep using that bludgeon, it works… LOL You, obviously, still do not get what we have tried to explain to you. You either are an anti-RKBA person that is using the claim of a “firearm owner” or a self-righteous person that does not understand there are many shades to what you believe is “safe handling/storage” and our attempts to enlighten you are being ignored or not understood through your thick veneer of ignorance.
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I emphatically disagree. I was trying to be nice regarding some of the misunderstood - taken out of context remarks. Again, for the hundredth time, my only objective was to bring some attention to the unnecessary loss and maiming of children from careless, sometimes reckless acts of irresponsible gun owners or yes, in some cases these irresponsible people have firearms illegally- but for those criminals nothing I say or anyone else says will deter that behavior. My main focus was in response to the rash of firearm related accidents involving children in the Atlanta area, of which many are simply carelessness and some not practicing safe gun ownership. As far as your so far off base comment regarding the RTKBA, as I said, again numerous times, I am a long time concealed carry licensed individual and a staunch proponent of our Second Amendment and our entire Constitution- I’m a United States Navy Veteran that served way back in the mid 70’s. I can’t believe your comments after I detailed at length my posted comments. Please stop trying to make this into something it’s not and never was. I am also a long time USCCA Member and have referred quite a few others to the USCCA for membership. As I mentioned to the individual that wrote the idea to get gun dealers/store owners to bridge - using the McDonalds script- want fries and a drink to go with your burger- ask after a gun sale do you need a safe for your firearm or do you already own one? also ask - would you like or do you need any additional training and lastly where the USCCA could possibly get involved a bridge to protecting yourself and your family bin the event of a righteousness self defense shooting? And as you know the USCCA also offers a Ton of training material… ALL of these comments and suggestion of others as well has one and only ONE INTENTION- TO DO OUR PART AS RESPONSIBLE FIREARM OWNERS TO HELP OTHERS THAT MAY NOT BE AS RESPONSIBLE OR ARE JUST NEW GIN OWNERS WHO MAY NOT AS YET KNOW ALL THE RESOURCES AVAILABLE TO THEM… and in the end, if what I posted helps PREVENT just ONE Defenseless child from being harmed or killed by one of those many so called “accidents” that have been on the news what seems is everyday lately… then all the misunderstanding and taking things out of context, and quite frankly just some unwarranted comments… it was worth it for me… in conclusion to be perfectly clear… there is NO bludgeoning, there is NO anti- RKBA, there is NO self righteousness, NO ignorance, NO political angle to my remarks, just simply a man who cares about not just his own family, but others as well… including yours.
I’ll say it again, my sincere best wishes for a great 2021, take care.
Don
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I specifically meant, and I should have been more clear, to not leave a loaded firearm laying around where a child could get it. Of course the way to be prepared to protect yourself and your family is having your firearm loaded and ready for immediate use when needed. No time to waste. … sorry for the confusion. I do explain this in some other replies and even to one individual numerous times . Thanks for the heads up. I’ll try better to be clearer next time I post anything or reply to someone else’s post. Thanks again. Don
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An unloaded firearm is an expensive and useless club if someone kicks your door in at 3 in the morning. I’m sure that doesn’t happen in Atlanta though.
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No one said to keep an UNLOADED FIREARM… just to NIT leave a LOADED one lying around where a child could get it. Please read the entire post and put it all together. You can also read the numerous complete detailed explanation of the post. Thanks
The preventable death of a child is a terrible tragedy and I agree it is something we should always try to educate people about. I do not know where firearm accidents stand as a cause but they are not in the top 5 causes which I believe are suffocation, car crashes, drowning, fires, and choking. One thing I have no answer for (one of the many things) is how to raise the safety aspect without inflaming the emotional and false anti-gun rhetoric that is so prevalent today. I could go on with stories of how loaded firearms were always around when “we” were kids but everyone has heard them. Anyway as with all things be careful of unintended consequences. Remember false perceptions are too often believed to be reality.
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So, then, you understand and agree with what I stated, that those that do not obey laws will not obey firearm safety rules. Your bashing us for carelessness and not teaching others is unfounded and asinine as many of us here are certified instructors, and even many of us who are not certified instructors, do teach others firearm safety and how to shoot.
The incidents you refer to were not accidents, but cases involving negligence. Yes, negligence can be prevented. However, as stated by you and me, these incidents were caused by those less likely to care about firearm safety as they obviously do not care even about laws.
Yes, all of here are quite well aware of the importance of firearm safety. As to leaving a firearm where a child can get it, there are also numerous opinions on that topic, too. Some factors would be the age of the child, level of understanding, responsibility, and knowledge of firearm safety and how to shoot, state and federal laws in regard to firearms in the home and access to them by minors.
Many of us here learned firearm safety and how to shoot at very young ages, so we would vehemently disagree with your statement about loaded firearms in the presence of our children or access to firearms by our children. Again, your opinion does not trump our beliefs and opinions nor facts that prove your fear misplaced, as I pointed out earlier that the CDC data invalidates your claim.
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William, thank you for your comments. I completely understand your points. Yes, there are many things that have cause childhood deaths at much higher levels than firearm accidents. Drowning is one- another that is somewhat preventable, none use if car seats, and others you noted. In the post I made it was a specific reaction to what has happened at an alarming rate in Atlanta. Compounding these tragedies are the fact that too often the firearm is illegally possessed… but also there’s the plain truth that some folks shouldn’t own a gun if they’re not responsible in the handling of it- safe, etc., when NOT in use. A quick access safe is great and in seconds you’re loaded firearm is in your hand ready to protect yourself and your family. My intent is to help educate whenever the opportunity arises those folks, perhaps first time Gun buyers that may appreciate help from those of us that have owned firearms for a long time and take advantage of training made available to us- USCCA Members have a ton of training tools available. The Atlanta tragedies just hit a nerve and I have personally experienced a careless owner who nearly was the cause of a tragedy- went to a barbecue at their home and the children were in the house playing when we heard a big crash… ran upstairs to find the kids (none older than 5) climbing up a dresser by opening the draws to use to get to the top… the weight of more than one kid caused it to fall- luckily the kids fell away from it… BUT what we found in horror was a LOADED handgun that was on the top of the dresser- supposedly out of reach of the kids. What the heck was a loaded gun doing in the open - not locked up? This very instance actually caused many of their friends to end their relationship… the kids in Atlanta just brought back this memory and I was hoping to just bring awareness to it. Thanks again. By the way… there’s a great reply from someone that had a great idea regarding gun dealer/store owners regarding safes. We discussed it in more detail on a few threads… take care… Don
Before we continue to get lost in the weeds of arguing the extremes, which is a recipe for accomplishing absolutely nothing—
Is there anyone here that thinks that introducing new and inexperienced gun owners to options for safe gun storage and handling is a bad idea?
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Dave- nowhere in my comments do I “bash” responsible Gun owners… I ASK- Encourage all responsible Gun owners to help educate those that are not or simply new gun owners that could benefit from guidance of experts like you. Not sure how you came to the conclusion you did but I only asked for help in trying to keep children safe. A loaded firearm laying around where a child can get it is irresponsible. I never said to put an unloaded gun in a safe… that’s asinine. I even nite that there are many quick opening safes out there and when your firearm is not on your person it should be hopefully in your quick access safe- when children are present a must. If you live alone or with no children in the home, I know of some folks who utilize those strong gun magnets- they have them mounted in strategic places around their home for quick and easy access. Please reread some of my follow up comments… hope this helps clear things up. Thanks for your feedback
Don
Thank you Shamrock. I’m exhausted trying to respond and re-explain the goal of my post- simply asking the responsible Gun community to help with these horrific, preventable tragedies like the 2 and 4 year old shooting… and the other cases that have been seemingly an everyday occurrence the last few weeks in Atlanta. I get emotionally drained when I see a careless act that caused a tragedy… In no way, shape or form have I bashed any responsible gun owner… I merely asked for everyone’s help… Your suggestion regarding gun dealerships/stores regarding safes is awesome and I felt a great idea… and as I noted I am emailing Tim @ our USCCA with your idea and how he can bridge from the initial gun sale- to the safe option- to the training option- to the protection option. We can do so much to help our community and increase, in a positive way, the perception of the public regarding responsible gun ownership. Utilizing the tools we have and the sharing of valuable information and ideas can go a long way in improving our image- especially in areas where politics cause a perception based on an agenda that gives the public a false image of us… with a combined effort we can help change that… we have to get to the point where facts can overcome false perception. Thanks again for your feedback and great ideas… Don
You keep posting the same things over, and over, again, which is just your opinion, not fact. I never stated the above, either. Why do you keep posting that?
Not necessarily true as I had explained. Also, many children have defended themselves and family members with firearms - far more than have been killed by negligent discharges. In the USA, according to the CDC, in 2019, there were 51 accidental deaths due to firearms for children ages 0 - 14 years-old, with a total for all ages of 483. Far more die from drowning (children, 645, total 3,692) and vehicular crashes (children, 1,282, total 39,107).
Like not making it sound like we here are irresponsible firearm owners just because we do not agree with your opinion.
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Time to agree to disagree?
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For me what I am trying to take from this is the same thing I try to practice at all times, practice what you preach. I tell everyone I know that is a new gun owner or is thinking of becoming a new gun owner, you will be consistently preached to about gun safety, its not enough until you realize that each and every bullet that is fired from the gun you own is your responsibility. No matter if it hits the bullseye, the intended target and it passes thru the target or the misses that could kill or destroy property. When you realize that everything you hit you are responsible for, you think more about where the gun is, how it is stored and who can get to it. There was a time I would leave mine in the truck on occasion in the center console, but after some stories and responsible gun training, I realized I needed a truck safe as well as a home safe. I have discovered for me at least that there is no such thing as to safe. I thank the USCCA for providing me with more and more training vids and tips. Always learning something new here.
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