El Paso Shooting

[Tim9991]

Eye-Opening.

[Zee]

@BrophE

In CA we have a gun enhancement for using a gun in commission of a crime.

Until 2018, individuals who used a gun to commit certain crimes were subject to mandatory minimum terms of imprisonment under the 10-20-Life sentencing enhancement law. The 2018 change in the law gives judges the discretion to remove the sentencing enhancement in certain situations. The gun enhancement hasn’t been used since.

It’s a shame it’s not being used with proper judgement. I do remember early on in that law’s life, though, where it was used against a couple border patrol officers who violated policy during a border pursuit and arrest. Because they were carrying their duty guns during the pursuit and arrest, and IIRC, discharged them, the officers got mandatory 10 year minimum jail sentences. I don’t remember all the details but I believe the only reason they got jail time was because of that law… otherwise the officers would possibly have been fired but not been sent to jail for 10 years.

It was badly written law. I’m a fan of the gun penalty enhancement, and if they fixed the law, but refuse to apply it, all I can say is the judges need replacing.

IDK if theres anything in the law in CA that works ok.

[BrophE]

Our laws have been decimated by politicians. Bad guys know there’s no real threat of punishment because of props 47 & 57 and AB 109.

[bulldog]

Those two border patrol officers were indicted by a federal grand jury in El Paso County, Texas (same place the Walmart is in.) They got into a fight with a drug smuggler after stopping his truck with 800 pounds of marijuana on the U.S. side of the border. Their version was one of the agents thought the smuggler had a gun and was going to shoot them and one of the BP shot him in the a$$ after the other agent fired on the smuggler, missing him. They were convicted of assault with the firearm enhancement by an El Paso Federal jury and got federal time after the jury was told they cleaned up their brass at the scene and did not report the incident to their supervisor and filed a false report about the recovery of the marijuana. The smuggler got back into Mexico after being shot. He lodged a complaint which created an international incident. They are out now after doing time and losing their careers and branded for life as convicted felons. The carrot for the drug smuggler to come back to the U.S. to testify? The U,S. government gave him a green card and immunity. The admitted drug smuggler also filed a 5 million dollar suit against the Feds. This happened under George Bush Jr.'s watch. Bush did commute their sentence cutting short their time served. There is a movement to get Trump to pardon these former agents.

[BrophE]

Some good advice on this FB post on what to do during an active shooter event.

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[Hailey]

I appreciate that there is a divide of generations here, but the blame gets a bit rediculous. “Kids these days…” To begin with, every study, for every attempt to blame video games, has shown that video games have no influence in violence, just like TV didn’t, and radio before it didn’t, so, just stop progressing that fallacy already. The screen thing is tired too. Latch key kids aren’t new, and being left to the screen be ause both parents had to work goes back to at least the 80’s. That’s forty years guys, I’m not even forty yet. I can tell you one big difference between the parents of my generation and the generation before mine. We were told to be scared of everything. Strangers, drugs, Halloween candy, sex, everything was out to get us. So when my generation started parenting, a lot of them took that to their parenting. We can’t let our kids out to play, or do anything, because we were taught, everything is gonna kill us.

@Zee has been the best contributed here on this. It’s not “PC cults” or “the libs” it’s the 24 hour news cycle profiting off of the horror, and the media machine particular to American tragedy AND fighting. The more we fight one another, the more they make off of us.

We need to address the problems behind these situations. Mental Health is part of health care and we need to make sure everyone has access to it, including employment that allows a living wage, so that as some have already said, families can spend time together, not working two or three jobs and double shifts, exhausted and straining their own relationships just putting food on the table. We need to get at the stressors before they lead frustrated people to dark places and self radicalization, to desperate acts that take our sisters and brothers, daughters, sons, mother’s, father’s, from us, ruining lives that survive.

Remember that, participate in bringing together, rather than just trying to point fingers and assign arbitrary blame in moral panic. We don’t need to take anyone’s video games, or vinyls, or cassette tapes, or high capacity magazines. We don’t have to go to church, to be good to one another, and live as I teach my son every day since he was born, to treat everyone, as you wish to be treated. I try read through the expression and opinions here, and be at least respectful because I want the same. I don’t believe that the generations before me screwed everything up, and I would like the same in return. Please, let’s skip the rhetoric targeting each other, and remember there is more than one group and philosophy here, and really focus on those stressors, or support one another for those experiencing personal loss in this. I wish you all at least, a blessed sleep tonight despite this weekend

~Hailey

[Walter3]

Another Sad Day for all of US in the USA. Another political hit on the 2A. When are the Politicians going to learn that making another law doesn’t work? The USA has more laws in the history of mankind, not one has stopped anything unlawful. We still have prisons full of law breakers and even in prison they still break rules (laws). There is always going to be Evil in this world. The problem is our nation is losing our morals, what use to be wrong, is ok now. It all starts with our parents, our upbringing. For years generations have been losing the Christian values that the USA was founded on. The only way you can stop violence is to “Change Man’s Heart” and thats though Jesus Christ one person at a time.

[Lakerfan34]

What amazes me is how security will ask for a receipt on a bottle of water return and yet Wal-Mart’s security cameras don’t pickup a person carrying an AK-47 assault rifle through the parking lot. Which means somebody wasn’t doing their job and should be fired. Makes me sick. If stores are gonna hire security guards they need to let them have a choice on whether they choose to be armed.

It is for this reason why I am now choosing to carry concealed wherever I legally can do so now. This world is getting to become too dangerous and it is only going to get worse unless we do something about it. There’s been 3 active shooter situations within the past week and there was 3 shootings in my hometown within the past 24 hours. Enough is enough. It’s up to nobody but us to keep ourselves safe.

[Zee]

@Hailey

I can tell you one big difference between the parents of my generation and the generation before mine. We were told to be scared of everything. Strangers, drugs, Halloween candy, sex, everything was out to get us. So when my generation started parenting, a lot of them took that to their parenting. We can’t let our kids out to play, or do anything, because we were taught, everything is gonna kill us

That’s a really interesting point. I think helicopter parenting can significantly retard a child’s maturity… they are protected from learning through their own mistakes and experiences and don’t have to develop much emotional fortitude. Some kids (and their parents) have a sense of outrage if anything seems unfair. They can’t tolerate not getting what they think they are due. They cant tolerate failure, and they don’t learn skills for adapt, persist, overcome. They often don’t know how to suck it up, let it go, and move on.

That sense of moral outrage at being slighted, plus the perception that they are a victim (whether or not its true) is one of the common themes in kids who become school shooters.

[45IPAC]

The Simon group, that owns Cielo Vista mall, has a strict “no gun zone” policy. Walmart rents this particular space from Simon, as a part of this shopping complex. Walmart does not have a no gun policy. Walmart’s company policy is abide by the law in the state the store is located. Since it was on Cielo Vista property, it’s a gun free zone. Also, being in El Paso, several of the customers were probably Mexican citizens. Those shoppers, couldn’t have been armed to start with. A quick study reports that around 5 percent of Texans hold a ccw license, and how many of those actually carry?

[45IPAC]

@Hailey

it’s the 24 hour news cycle profiting off of the horror, and the media machine particular to American tragedy AND fighting

This, right here! I’ve seen one news report that talked about the mother that died shielding her baby, and the soldier that helped hustle children out of the danger zone. The rest have been “ban the guns” and “it’s Trump’s fault.”

[Zee]

@45IPAC it sounds like the property owners intend it to be a gun-free zone, but what we don’t know is if they actually posted it… @wildrose thinks they didn’t.

Here’s what the USCCA website says about the Texas law on signage:

Signage laws enforced?
Yes. A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a concealed handgun on property of another without effective consent and received oral or written notice that entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden. As of September 1, 2019 , Tex. Pen. Code §§ 30.06 & 30.07 will provide a legal defense for License To Carry holders who unknowingly enter establishments with 30.06 or 30.07 signs, as long they promptly leave when verbally informed of the policy.

• “Written communication” means:
  • A card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: “Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun;" or
  • A sign posted on the property that:
    * Includes the language described in both English and Spanish;
    * Appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least 1" in height; and
    * Is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

[45IPAC]

I had someone on line tell me that the entrances are posted, but, I can’t personally confirm that. If @WildRose has a good image where he can see that the entrance isn’t posted, that would be the ballgame. Just like here in Illinois, Texas requires the signage, to enforce a policy.

[Dawn]

@Sheepdog556

Someone knew something was off, this PC I don’t wanna get involved garbage has to end. People writing stupid posts on social media should absolutely get questioned. I’m not saying you don’t have the right to speak your mind. But hate filled posts and threats should absolutely be a huge red flag. Every other right has to be used responsibly use the first responsibly also.

There are so many factors that play into these shooter situations. I personally believe it takes a village with strong, attentive parents who can step in when needed with any child. And it takes respect being taught and abided by.

@Sheepdog556 makes a great point about social media - but unfortunately, I think social media has only increased the hate and reduced personal responsibility. Yes, we can say anything we want under the 1st Amendment, but that doesn’t mean we should. And that is the big factor we’ve been missing as a country, should we?

I find Sheepdog556’s choice of words very interesting - “huge red flag.”

Please note, these are my personal views, not necessarily the views of USCCA.

[Hailey]

I agree with you in both regards. We rebuff that my husband and I, and get some pushback from other parents for it definitely. We do definitely feel however it is important to let our make choices independent of us, and good or bad play out the consequence. The responsibility that comes with agency. It’s foundation, keystone along with do until others, of what I’ve tried to raise and teach my son. I think too many kids don’t have experience with agency and the consequence, especially the responsibility for the latter, and so when they are ‘adults’ on their own, they make choices/act on this agency not aware the scope of consequences. I didn’t want that to happen with my child. I wanted him to not only understand the consequence and scope/scale, but also, to respect the agency if others, which is another problem. To be certain he understands that when someone uses their agency to say no, or otherwise not consent to something, that agency has to be respected and the respect thereof is an act of agency all in its own.

[Zee]

@Brophe that’s a really good article

@BrophE

Chris Hernandez Author

Here are a handful of considerations on what to do if you find yourself in a mass shooting. My opinion comes from decades as a cop, a couple years at war, and my experiences teaching active shooter…

[Jerzees]

@Hailey

every study, for every attempt to blame video games, has shown that video games have no influence in violence

I do not agree. I’ve witnessed this (it has not end up with shooting), but in 100% video games have influence in violence !
It starts with different, strange behavior, then goes to fierceness, and then… hard to say… that’s the moment you have to catch it and stop it!!!

It is not the only reason for violence, but it’s part of whole process of young mind’s manipulation.

[Sheepdog556]

I didn’t mean red flag as in red flag laws. I meant it as a red flag that should have caused someone to speak up. There’s already details coming out about the Dayton OH shooter. People saying he had hit lists and rape lists. The reports are that his classmates new but did they tell anyone until now? I’m not saying anyone having a bad day can’t vent but that level of hate and anger is not normal. And those classmates new that at the time otherwise they wouldn’t be speaking up now. How many times are these details found out AFTER.

[Sheepdog556]

Agreed. There is a lot of research that shows it is a contributing factor. Getting rid of them isn’t going to solve it all. Anything that will desensitize someone to violence is a factor

[Hailey]

You don’t have to agree. Older generations have often blamed a particular medium of the younger for any kind of violence. Radio was blamed, Movies, then television, records and music were blamed, now it’s video games. It’s a moral panic cycle.