From Louisiana…
Agreed!
1 Like
I’m very glad you’re here, @Carla1! And thank you for your comment.
We 100% agree that education begins with listening and respectful conversation. Disagreements are what make us all stronger - if we can learn from them. That means the conversations need to be respectful and not intentionally hurtful. (Missteps happen and we do our best to ensure that they’re addressed and learned from.)
We’re all here for the same reason – no matter our background – to learn how to best protect ourselves and our loved ones.
6 Likes
Was it Churchill that said, “never, never, never”. Call me Winston.
2 Likes
You have never had a cop pull you out of a cab “just to check things out”.
No, I haven’t had a cop pull me out of a cab. However, I have had myself robbed, on campus, was just out of the Navy, so was still in great shape and still took martial arts training seriously. Had a LEO come up and without even announcing himself. Took a full on swing at my thigh with his baton, saw it coming soon enough I was able to deflect enough energy away that he wasn’t able to get the movement stop he was looking for.
His reason for taking swing, I was standing at the ATM cursing because I had just been robbed of $300, me and college roommate were making spontaneous trip to beach. So he assumed I was the “bad guy” even though I was the one who had called law enforcement. I won’t go into all of it, but a whole lot of police later, I spent a week in the hospital from a cracked skull.
Only thing that kept me from going to prison. It was all caught on film. 6 atm machines.
Do I blame all LEO’s for that one’s bad day. No. I blame him. As did the city, the University, and ultimately the court. That is as it should be.
I have had other run ins with police that weren’t positive, (said many times I came this ][close to becoming a wolf rather than a sheepdog). Should I blame all of whatever race it was that robbed me, (Note I am specifically not naming a race) no.
The fact that there are LEO’s of any stripe still getting up in the morning, strapping on their duty belt, and badge. Then showing up for work, should speak volumes to the character of these officers. Are there bad apples that may be beating the system? I’m sure there are.
But that is not all of them. Not by a long shot. I am assuming that since you are here, you are probably 2A. If you are anything like the majority of us, we all cringe inside when there is a mass shooting. We mourn the victims but we get ready to be assailed for wanting to exercise our 2nd Amendment Rights.
6 Likes
There is the possibility that most people simply stay away from the police for whatever reason, including fear of a negative reaction. I talk to the local guys all of the time, but rarely see anyone else even say hello to them. If this is the norm (and I think that it is) then for regular people…every actual interaction with them is likely for negative reasons (speeding ticket, questioning, etc.).
In my business we call this you get what you measure.
3 Likes
This issue with that I think people are failing to realize and don’t want to face is that there are clearly two very different Americas when it comes to police. I say this having been pulled out of said cab by NYPD as a young Marine in town for my Uncle whom was FDNY’s funeral. Myself and 2 cousins watched in slow motion as the cab which picked us up at the mall was pulled over and the officers asked for our identification. Then were asked to exit the vehicle so the officer could search us. This wasn’t the first negative interaction with police officers and wouldn’t be the last. I have a question for you have you ever sat on a park bench reading a book from a nearby library and had the police ask for your ID because they needed to “make sure everything is ok”? I’ve had a campuses police draw down on me and two other black men because we were 10 ft from an entire ROTC drill team marching (whom we were helping train) and told to get on my face and and drop the weapon when we are all holding the same demilitarized weapon. These experiences and the lack of accountability for many other incidents including common occurrences like this video Seriously?? Man Gets Pulled Over For Doing 65 in a 70 - YouTube. Myself and a good part of the populace would prefer these departments that are adverse to any change as far as accountability is concerned should go the way of departments that were dissolved like Camden, New Jersey. There is no relationship to the community with many of these departments in fact what they are doing is doubling down on their frankly horrifying behavior and complaining that people don’t seem to respect them as much… I wonder why people don’t respect organizations that can be show video of their members breaking the law and then lie 2 different times when asked for a statement (Buffalo PD). It’s not a “this place vs that place” thing, this is a systemic and cultural mindset were if you feel like it you can behave like a jack booted thug and no matter what everyone has my back. If someone doesn’t fall in line then they will get fired or have an accident… They literally operate like a crime family across most of this country and many people have opened their eyes and are saying the same thing many community leaders have said for a while… It’ time for a RICO case.
2 Likes
I’ve been forced to produce ID on multiple occasions simply for being outside, but I’ve never been pulled or of my car. I do believe different people are treated differently, specifically young black males, and I believe this contributes to both the higher rate of incarceration and mistrust of police, which fuels the fire. I can only back this up with anecdotal stories from my own circle of friends, although statistics seem to support this.
“Systemic” is a popular word but I’m not sure it’s the correct word. If racism was built into the system, then the cure would be as easy as tweaking the system. I don’t think it’ll be that easy, I think they are decades of misunderstandings that need to be resolved, and a lot of people who are talking need to start listening. I hope I’m wrong and someone shows us the way soon.
1 Like
Hate to burst your bubble on Camden, NJ. Still the most dangerous city in New Jersey, and still top 10 nationally.
2 Likes
Don’t people realize as soon as all police departments are defunded, the serial killers are just going to have a blast. You know we sit at home thinking he/she (the serial killer) didn’t just wake up one morning and decide to go on a spree. Well folks now he or she is planning it, yes they will wake up as soon as 911 doesn’t work. What’s to stop them? Just please don’t defund the police in my neighborhood, and don’t disarm good citizens. Cities and states that defund and dismantle, deserve what they get.
Ladies I recommend you arm yourself. Your world is about to change dramatically. I recommend you travel in pairs and watch your children carefully. We thought the world was dangerous six months ago? The nation is in a very dangerous position right now.
I’m pre elderly and I know I’m in a dangerous nation. I will only travel in pairs. Be safe and watch your six.
2 Likes
You are not wrong. In my opinion though, the conversation is all about the police, yet it is imperative we talk about SCHOOL. There the problems begin, and in my opinion, defunding the public schools in favour of more educational choices would go a long way. In some severe cases, school districts need to be dismantled.
1 Like
Agreed. The police take the brunt of the blame because they’re out there enforcing laws and orders. But if we only focus on policing, then we’re treating the symptoms and not the disease. We have to look at the laws, the way cities operate, and at our society in general.
I’m reminded of an old libertarian argument that ultimately, laws can only be enforced at the point of a gun. If you’re not willing to shoot someone for breaking a law, then you should consider whether or not you really need that law. That’s been on my mind a lot over the past two weeks.
3 Likes
That’s kinda taking it to extreme. A bum wants to camp in my backyard, indefinitely. There is no justification here for lethal force, but it should be lawful to communicate my displeasure to him somehow, and I am even willing to start verbally.
BTW, I am surprised I am not hearing about lawsuits from owners of businesses within “CHAZ” against the city of Seattle.
2 Likes
They are not at the verbal point yet, for suing.
Every violent action always starts verbally. Then it escalates.
So what type of conversation will you have when he invites 2, 7, 15 homeless to your backyard and they refuse to leave, can’t call 911, there is no 911. Those that used to protect and serve no longer exist.
Now, one is a rapist, one a murderer two are pedophiles! I was wondering how do you start that conversation for 15 homeless to leave your backyard? You extended the courtesy of having them stay on your land, now they want your food, water use of your bathroom and your daughters, please don’t tell me that having a nice conversation with Charles Manson, or Ted Bundy is going to stop them from heinous crimes. Some force is and will always be required to keep your family safe. Peace through strength. Can not be denied.
I have a funny feeling you own a firearm.
Fair, I suppose it deserves some explanation.
The argument isn’t that you, I, or a police officer can shoot anyone breaking any crime. The argument is that no law is truly enforceable once you take lethal force off the table. If a police officer tries to stop me for jaywalking but cannot pursue me if I run away, then the law against jaywalking is merely a suggestion. Similarly, although “Resisting Arrest” is a separate crime, we’ve seen multiple cases where suspects have been killed when resisting arrest for what seem to be minor crimes. So when NYPD killed Eric Garner, people started asking why they were enforcing a seemingly innocuous law about selling loose cigarettes. (Answer: because the state wants their Tobacco Taxes.)
To use your example, I agree that you’re not immediately justified in using lethal force to remove someone from your backyard. But if you cannot escalate the situation, then squatter’s rights trump property rights. You can call the police, they can use physical force to remove someone from your property, and if the arrest goes sideways then lethal force might come into play. (Luckily the police use lethal force and not you.)
I’m not a Libertarian myself and I’m not trying to recruit anyone to adopt that philosophy or join that party. But if we can elevate the national conversation to the point where we’re looking holistically at law enforcement, then that must include a look at the laws that are being enforced. That’s why this has been on my mind.
2 Likes
Please don’t kid yourself, crime rates will climb 75 to 100% prior to the election.
1 Like
Well, I will do yoga and meditation, and imagine that I am a resident in the fine city of San Francisco.
I am sorry, I couldn’t help the joke.
2 Likes
Let me speak some keywords to explain why we are light years away from that point: Epstein, the island, the plain, the mail server… If you cannot enforce it on the elephant in the room, how can you enforce it on the mouse.
1 Like
That’s a question of enforcement. Minor laws are enforced against the average man on the street who can’t afford a billion dollar law firm. The powerful can afford those attorneys and have powerful connections, and therefore escape even egregious examples of major law violations. I don’t know if we’ll ever get a level playing field between the rich and the poor (although history is full of chaotic and bloody corrections to the normal imbalance).
But the question of laws should be within our grasp, if this is indeed a national movement to improve the United States. (That’s a big IF. I have serious doubts, but my reasons probably don’t belong here.)
2 Likes
In my opinion, it is indeed not. Well-being of any community starts with economics, so filthy anarchistic “CHAZ” should not have happened, the Wendy’s in Atlanta should not have burned (someone makes a paycheck there!), etc. My employer donates to all sorts of woke social justice causes -how about outreach to traditionally Black colleges to attract graduates from hi-tech programs? Nah, they will rather outsource a thousand jobs to India.
2 Likes