Derek Chauvin stabbed

It also doesn’t state the levels of drugs were lethal. The doctor never states that in his testimony.
In his testimony and in the first line of the report he stated what he thought the cause of death was. **cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression" **

Not every cause of death will leave signs of obvious “life threatening injuries.” In this case, the Medical examiner thought that neck restraint made it impossible for Floyd’s body to pay its oxygen debt. He said this at trial. Again, the Examiner could have put in the case title. OD’d, or heart failure owing to underlying cardiovascular conditions. He didn’t though. He put. “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression” No mention of fentanyl, or other drugs. Never says they were lethal doses. And at trial the doctor never says that. And he must have felt free to speak his mind as he disagrees with other experts and that muddied the cause of death waters for the prosecution.

I would reiterate that the report doesn’t say the fentanyl levels were “lethal.” And the Doctor didn’t say that on the stand either.

Honest question here, Was the 20 dollar bill Counterfeit? I don’t recall ever seeing anything that says either way.

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AS Don102 would say, “No step on snek”. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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There was a second 20 dollar bill on the grassy knoll :grinning:

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Or was it found in the 7-11 across the street?

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From the DEA:

2 mg of fentanyl, considered a potentially lethal dose

Floyd had 11.

But will you admit that the written report showing the level is a lethal dose? That is definitely a fact, look it up. It is even written in the pdf @Karacal posted here. Which means he did not get a fair trial. Will you admit that, now knowing the facts?

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I’m not going to bother getting into the weeds on this one again but will say this:

When authorities detain someone and take away their rights to free movement, self care and self defense they take on the responsibility for the health and well being of that person. If they negligently fail to sufficiently protect and care for those they have detained they should be held responsible. At least that is what the 8th Amendment and many other laws on the books imply.

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Dave, please stop trying to argue with trolls.
All the evidence in the world is not going to convince Max 20 that he, and others like him, are wrong.

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Judging from this discussion alone, I’d say “beyond reasonable doubt” standard was violated in Chauvin’s trial.

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I understand your point, but it changes nothing - predators need to be put behind bars so the average joe can walk across the street without getting assaulted.

Are you saying “us” must be inseparable from feral thugs - either both free, or both behind bars?

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Happy Birthday @Karacal ! I hope you have a great day sir.

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I and a lot of LEO that I know and talk with. really think if the Burn Loot Murder summer riots had a lot to do with it. that and the threats that were made.

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That is certainly a possibility, but it didn’t happen with Rittenhouse. He was found not guilty despite the fact that many of the same kinds of worries being present.
No doubt the same kinds of worries swirled around the Zimmerman case too.

I think juries are generally better doing the right thing even in fraught cases than folks give them credit for. It is an imperfect process to be sure.

Firstly I would point out that fentanyl is dangerous and pretty unpredictable. The danger thresholds will be different across individuals. There is a lot ambiguity in “potentially lethal dose” given the vagaries of human physiology. What we know is that he had Fentanyl in his system. We know that the Medical Examiner of record did not think that was what killed him. He doesn’t say so in his report, and he didn’t testify to that at trial.

A key passage from this page: "* Because of the proliferation of fentanyl and its role in the overdose epidemic, many people wonder what a lethal dose is.

There is no easy answer to this, and one dose that may fatal for one person may not be fatal for another. The bottom line is ANY misuse of fentanyl (knowingly or unknowingly) has the potential to cause a fatal overdose.*"
The main reason I am unconvinced of the unfairness charges is this. The Jury saw the same autopsy reports we have. They heard detailed expert testimony, and detailed expert counter testimony. They weighed both against the evidence and found the defense wanting. They heard all the stuff about complicating factors from the defense. The jury saw the evidence, weighed the testimony and found Chauvin guilty. I can see no evidence that the judge suppressed testimony or evidence, or swayed the jury in anyway. Indeed the dueling expert testimony of the autopsy doctors (official, and family commissioned) in addition to the counter testimony was, in my lay opinion, pretty bad for the prosecution.

Still the jury saw all the evidence we have brought up, including the evidence of rather underlying health concerns and found Chauvin guilty.
When coupling all the evidence of the experts with the behavior of Chauvin at the scene (he stayed on Floyd vastly longer than was necessary, and not once addresses really obvious signs of serious respiratory distress) I think the jury made a reasonable finding of guilt.

In the absence of Chauvin’s prolonged neck restraint, and what seemed a cavalier attitude to the suspect in his care’s condition, I think a different verdict would have been found. That is to say, had Chauvin stopped the neck restraint much, earlier, checked the subject, rendered aid etc, there would be little to find him at fault for. His attitude and behavior on the scene was a pretty bad fact, and one I don’t think the defense could overcome. Chauvin was supported by several other officers (who I think are maybe unfairly caught up in this event). He was not in any fear for his life, or the lives of other officers, or even Floyd. Chauvin very casually stays in position for an extended period of time, on a cuffed subject. Given those facts, the jury found Chauvin’s behavior to be the primary proximate cause of Floyd’s death. That is not an unreasonable position to take. And since they had all the same evidence to look at the we do, the verdict doesn’t seem unfair to me.

Now in an appeal a new camera angle could come to light that shows Floyd was actually much more of a threat, more dangerously resisting etc. I’m pretty skeptical of such evidence being forthcoming but it could happen and I would adjust my opinion.

Just saw that it was your birthday the other day, Belated Happy Birthday!
Hope it was grand!

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Did I miss it? :rofl:

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Simply saying that we both have too many people incarcerated and also don’t provide what should be a universal thing, safety, to those that are

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Derek Chauvin: Former police officer who murdered George Floyd ‘expected to survive’ prison stabbing (msn.com)

The former US police officer convicted of murdering George Floyd in 2020 is “expected to survive” after he was injured in a knife attack in jail.

Prison officers performed “life saving measures” on Derek Chauvin, 47, before he was taken to hospital, where his condition is said to be stable.

The attack, at a medium-security prison in Tucson, Arizona, on Friday came a week after the US Supreme Court threw out Chauvin’s appeal against his conviction.

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That poor cop is just a political pawn being abused by the system… such a shame

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I think this is the conventional model pushed by the MSM. IMHO, the states need to increase prison capacity, until there is a material change in headlines in the criminal section of the daily news.

As far as safety, in this case, there had been little provided for the witnesses, for the defense and for the jury, how can you expect safety for the accused. It is a case with programmed outcome, must be frustrating they cannot achieve that goal.