Can ammo like the R.I.P. or Critical Duty be used as evidence to prove you had malicious intent in court?

[Adam39]

I’ve heard of people having concerns about using ammo like the G2 Research R.I.P. rounds for self defense because the name could be used against them in court. I also hear some people cautioning others to even avoid using ammo like Hornady Critical Duty, because it’s what police and the FBI use.

Has this ever happened in a court case? Has there ever been a case where a lawyer used the mentioned types of ammo to make an argument that the defender who used the ammo in self defense had malicious intent?

[Zavier_D]

I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. I didn’t even spend last night at a Holiday Inn Express.

RIP ammo carries negative connotations, so I would be loathe to use it. However Hornady Critical Duty or Critical Defense have come up many times as positives for the reason you cited.

On “Ask an Attorney” Tom Grieve has advised numerous times ask your local law enforcement what they carry. In my area it’s Hornady Critical Duty or Critical Defense.

YMMV

[Scott52]

Simple answer, Yes, all the time, read “Deadly Force” Massad Ayoob, chapter 13 “Hardware Issues”. Study your state statutes on deadly force and study the type of ammunition that’s right for you to stop the threat without harming others, hence hollow points.

[Greg35]

Times are different now.
Today you could say ‘I had to use it. It was the only thing left on the shelf’

[Johnnyq60]

Welcome to the family and god bless you. Well to answer your question, anything can be used against you in court. I have never of any cases such as ammo brand being used against you. I could see a savvy prosecutor using the RIP brand because of what it stands for. But the Hornady Critical Defense I consider one of the best brands and a lot of concealed carriers use. But if anyone had experienced what you asked I definitely would like to know.

[Thomas681]

Anything and everything can be used against you. Including drinking too much coffee and being jittery… but rip stands for Radically Invasive Projectile not rest in peace so thats something… lol

[Johnnyq60]

I hear you @Thomas681 and even though they will use it against you because you can’t fit the whole brand on the cartridge.

[PDA3]

@Thomas681

Radically Invasive Projectile

I’m not sure that helps at all.

I can just hear the prosecutor now: The RIP bullet is supposed to be the “last round you will ever need”, and you shot him how many times?

[Johnnyq60]

Man I would tell the judge in court that it stood for Righteous Intelligent People.

[Dawn]

This thread has some about that as well:

Self Defense question

As a reloader, I need to ask this question. First I load target rounds for the most part, but the question is this if I load a defensive round(s) and I am forced to use that round to protect myself, is the round going to be a bone of contention? Is the fact that the round was reloaded the problem, is the problem that I reloaded the round and is there any problem at all? Be it known all of the rounds I reload are in strict compliance with existing SAMMI standards. Thank you

[Johnnyq60]

Hey @Dawn I believe there was a thread where a topic like this was discussed regarding if a prosecutor can use the fact that you used reloads but not sure if it was defensive ammo.

[45IPAC]

The RIP Ammo yes. Why anyone would use it is beyond me. It doesn’t perform well. Now, the argument that “the police use it” would help in court. A good lawyer would be able to articulate that if it’s quality enough for the police to use, it must be good enough for civilian use.

[Ken38]

The books on your shelves or in your Kindle reader can be used against you in court. Why were you wearing camo jockey shorts under your jeans? That 3 day defensive pistol course you took could be presented as a prosecutor or plaintiff’s attorney as “paramilitary” or “warrior” training. You simply cannot get distracted by what MIGHT happen in a courtroom in the rare even that you had a critical incident. You carry a gun! You are past a zero risk mentality now. Shake it off! Don’t do stupid stuff. Wearing a Natural Born Killer t-shirt and notching your gun and getting a swastika tattoo = stupid stuff.

[Adam39]

Great info, thank you all.

I’m curious if there is a case to reference where an attorney actually tried to use the ammo choice as evidence against a defender. How did it go? How did they try to frame the argument?

[Erik10]

Adam,

please remember, ANYTHING can be used to show intent. From a legal aspect, prosecutors could show that any trigger or other modifications you make to the gun or even the ammo you use were intended to take a life. A lawyer’s job is to tell a story the way they want and spin the facts to help substantiate their version of the story. So, YES, someone might use the ammo as a way to spin it like you intended to kill.

However, what you need to remember is this, adrenaline is a “bitch” when you’re trying to aim unless you practice…a lot. Like most admit, they missed some shots because their heart was pumping like crazy. Therefore, if you purchase a round that reportedly has better stopping power or is more likely to incapacitate, why wouldn’t you purchase it knowing you might only get one round on target in a high stress situation? Remember, Not everyone trains like BJ Baldwin does…

[Adam39]

Yes I agree with what you are saying.

The question is not CAN someone use your ammo choice, or anything else for that matter, against you in court. The question is HAS someone used ammo choice specifically against someone in court? If so, is there a case number or something to look up what happened in that case.

[Johnnyq60]

I believe if you do a google search of court cases involving Prosecution for improper ammunition in a pistol you may come up with some cases.

[Adam39]

While not ammo related I did find one story about a Cop who had “You’re f***” printed on the dust cover on his service rifle.

Can Gun Inscriptions Be Used Against You in Court? | OutdoorHub

[Erik10]

The guy who re-certifies me for my permit always reminds us that ANYTHING can be scrutinized and he has mentioned there have been cases where modifying the trigger, or having punisher grips or emblem on your weapon, or ammo or anything can be used against you. I don’t know of a specific case and I’m not going to see him for another year but I’ll certainly keep my ears open for you.

[Lewis7]

Here In California it is not advised to use reloaded rounds for anything but targets, because the Layers will say you planning something evil and your not a certificated manufacturer of ammo. For self protection always have the store bought in your possession that is certified.