I understand, I fear official power gone wrong more than i do the criminals, because they have such incredible advantage over the average citizen and they have the presumption of right due to their position. I don’t blame anyone who wants to see that power kept in check and held to account, and neither do any of the very fine officers i have known.
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I contacted my attorney yesterday. As far as Indiana goes…
Citizens CAN arrest or detain whoever until the police arrive with reasonable force. Whoever includes police officers.
The act must be felonious not a misdemeanor. It is a fine line between felony and misdemeanor. All contextual and circumstantial.
I specifically used George Floyd as an example. Attorney says the example is “gray” because how can a person immediately evaluate if physical assault or bodily injury is taking place. If a person is beating someone down in the street that is obvious bodily injury/physical assault. Harder to prove a knee on the neck until it is unfortunately too late.
I was encouraged to know the local criminal laws and case law. For Indiana, criminal law is located under Indiana code title 35.
The attorney also said to exercise caution, caution, caution. Obviously. And to weigh a possible lawsuit.
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Thank you for the awesome comment, @DS-1!!
I was on the phone with a friend of mine this morning who is married to a police officer. Not only are police officers themselves being targeted because of their choice of profession, but their families are being targeted as well - including their children. I will share your comment with her. I know hearing comments like yours is very helpful at this time.
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Good point. If the police are conducting a lawful arrest and you interfere, then you’re breaking the law.
I have to be honest, this would be really tough for me to do. For example, if someone is saying “I can’t breath,” then they can breath. (It’s like someone saying “I’m choking.” You can say you’re choking if you’re actually choking.) If someone says “he’s hurting me,” I think “stop resisting, and the pressure point will stop hurting.” Without being able to examine the subject that the police are working on, you have little certainty that you’d need to step in. (BTW, plenty of YouTube videos of people attacking police when they’re trying to apprehend a suspect. I can’t recommend it.)
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It has become very difficult for police departments to recruit. This started about 5 years ago, when “police brutality” became a popular headline. You have to really want to serve if you’re going to start a career as a police officer. And if you know a good police officer, you need to support them, because they carry a huge burden.
Scary thought: some of the best and brightest recruits will walk away from policing because of the risks and abuses they see. In another 10-20 years, what will the quality of our police forces be?
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@Dawn I just pulled the May/June issues of Concealed Carry out of my mailbox. You guys are really on top of things! Here I was thinking we were simply talking about the headlines. 
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Thank you Dawn , I appreciate knowing that. I’m just learning some of the members and how to navigate around. I just sort of dove in and figured I’d learn as i went. so your feed back is much appreciated. I think the calm considered voice of your self and Mike are very helpful and I look for your educated opinions frequently as various subjects unfold. I have very little on-line life, but i do feel strongly about the right to bear arms, and the solemn responsibility that comes with it. Hopefully I can support the right balance of courage and caution such matters deserve. And, there is always something to learn.
I hope your friend knows that some of us understand the thankless dedication it takes to be a good officer, and that the families are a part of that. I can only pray for their safety and support during such trying times, especially for them.
DS
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My friend was VERY appreciative of your message yesterday, @DS-1! It was a message she needed to hear yesterday.
I’m so glad you’ve jumped in and started finding your way around. Here is a new user guide that has a few How-to’s that might help.
Glad to have you here!
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He was actually found to have died from asphyxiation…
Dr. Donald M. Bell PA-C
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Now, we should expect another investigation to determine which M.E. is lying and which M.E. is telling the truth. After that, then we should expect to see charges brought for filing a false official report - right? Or, do we just accept the second opinion and let things slide?
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both MEs have an incentive to say what their side wants to hear. I thought I read that a federal ME was being brought in? Presumably the 3rd ME will be the tiebreaker ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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The coroner’s report ruled out asphyxiation as the cause of death, however, the complete report has not been released yet.
The autopsy done by the medical examiner retained by the plaintiff’s attorney concluded that he died from asphyxiation. This information was not available when I made my comments and I have not yet seen that report.
I agree that the coroner could be taking a side, however, if he was, I do not see where his conclusion that this was a homicide would be consistent with that premise.
On the other hand, the expert hired by counsel for the decedent’s family, has every reason to conclude that his death was caused by asphyxiation since that was what the public believed all along. A death caused by excited delirium did not fit that premise.
I cannot tell you which autopsy is correct, however, I can say that I can find an expert that will draw the conclusions I want them to make with little difficulty.
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In 2013 Lehman Brothers Executives were able to find experts that testified to all sorts of things in direct dispute with the Federal Bankruptcy Examiner. They were able to find one 6 man law firm in England, that argued against every main accounting law firm in the United States. About the legality of the Repo 105 transactions they were doing that are
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Expressly forbidden by SOX
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Based on that one 6 man law firms opinion they also transferred all of their troubled assets from everywhere in the World to England (again expressly forbidden by SOX).
So yeah I am willing to bet you could find an “expert” who will give expert testimony that he actually died from Covid 19.
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I’ve been able to read both reports (perks of my current job) and looked at the photos. Evidence points to asphyxiation from my 30 years in the medical field… From both exams.
But I can attest that an “expert” can be found to decide what ever you want… Seen it happen many time…
Dr. Donald M. Bell, PA-C
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Was it asphyxiation or respiratory arrest brought on by ED?
This is a bad situation. What I feel needed to happen was the fellow cops should have done something in the Floyd’s situation.
What would have happened if, during the Floyd’s incident, bystanders jumped in to help? I think the police would have gotten off, and the intervening persons would have been charged.
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Bingo.
In my state, interfering with a law enforcement officer in the legal execution of his duties is a class D felony. If you had a good lawyer, perhaps you could convince a court that those officers were exceeding their authority and were no longer executing their duties in a legal manner. But if your intervention were successful, the suspect would have lived, and there would be little facts or outrage to support your assertion.
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Interfering with a police officer during an arrest is absolutely a NO NO
Regardless of the circumstances / I would like to think that people would actually help anyone in distress / and in many cases you see people help - even help police officers - I am a strong believer that most people are caring supportive people - there is an invisible line for most common folk with common sense to know regardless how horrific a scene may be you do not cross that invisible police line - (Almost like a dog with an electrical fence) Again the biggest evidence/Tool here is the camera and it does not always catch everything - Lots of variables- I had a discussion with my son regarding police brutality - unfortunately the media has capture a number of law enforcement officers being abusive and aggressive - this is the opportunity to improve the programs of training and to remove the bad apples that exist - My opinion is and has always been -Money and Power corrupt- there is a solution to this there just needs some effort -
Think of one more thing, imagine that George Floyd had a CCW would there even be a video -
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Supposedly the 2A allowed citizens to carry guns to protect them from the government. The local police are enforcing local government laws and the national guard state government laws and the regular military federal. During these protest which is allowed under the 1A; can armed PROTESTERS shoot at the government enforcers who get heavy handed?
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This would be a very extreme situation. I’ve been thinking and cannot think of a situation that would arise and justify shooting at LEO or National Guard. The reason I say that is they too have the right to defend themselves and unless you’ve seen the entire situation play out you might not know why they have gotten “heavy handed”. With the current political climate filming and gathering details would be in my opinion the better option. The reason I say that is if we play out the scenario of someone defending a citizen against LEO with deadly force understand that they have been engaged them and they will come after the person like they’re a cop killer. I don’t speak in absolutes because opinions change however can you imagine a case so extreme that you’re prepared to have the PD hunt you down as a cop killer to defend a stranger without knowing exactly what is going on?
When I use the word you please understand I’m not calling you out, its a great scenario to think through and everyone has different lines they’ve drawn in the sand. Thank you for the thought provoking scenario
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