"Assault weapon" and AR15 terminology

Did you say cute? :blush:

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@BeanCounter That one is “PRETTY” :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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I have one of those.

It’s a total waste of brass!

As in, you will waste loads of brass at the range it’s soo damned fun!!!

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Fun is right. And an inexpensive way to train with AR platform.

I’m waiting for a granddaughter to spoil with that one.

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New to the forum….

How the h€££ do you quote someone in a reply?

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(On phone)Press on the text you want to
Quote, drag to highlight, press “quote”
Then add your reply underneath.
Hth

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Thanks Karacal!! :+1:

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Most people who are against guns don’t know anything about them. A woman had a picture of an M1 Grand on face book and she wrote below it you don’t need an AR15 to hunt with you need one of these which I was told in basic training that the rifle and bullets we used would go through 8 trees and kill the enemy behind the tree.

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So,…. Was she supporting building an AR platform in 30-06? Or denouncing using a 5.56 for hunting?

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Actually there are handguns that use “clips” some handguns chambered for .45ACP use “moon clips”.

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True.

However, it is a rather safe assumption that when someone who supports control laws says clip, they are not referring to a moon clip. Both because people who support gun control rarely know anything about guns and, also, because the current attacks are not generally aimed at revolvers that hold 5-8 rounds (most being 5-6).

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I think this kind of terminology policing neglects the way language actually works. Also, grammar policing doesn’t really explain anything to one’s intellectual opponents. Getting bent out of shape about a term “clip” that even firearms folks used to use fairly regularly until quite recently seems almost wholly unproductive. “Clip” was used interchangeably with “magazine” for ages, and was probably coopted naturally clips that did hold ammo, moon clips, Garand clips etc. This kind of thing happens all the time.

Also I think pretending that an MSR is merely a semi-automatic rifle indistinguishable from older models of semi-automatic rifle is also somewhat intellectually dishonest. Like many semi-automatic rifles MSRs have all their major design roots in the military. They are designed to be easily used by a wide range of people. These are pretty purpose built critters and the original purpose was for military applications. They are superior to the rifles that came before them in this role. If they were not, the military would not likely have replaced them. I’m not even bothered by calling them “assault rifles,” because even though they can be pressed into any other roles their design can be traced back to a pretty specific military purpose. I just think that law abiding citizens should be able to have them. I think focusing on the kinds of arguments that justify that position, and not being gun grammar police is a far more effective approach to having productive conversations about these rifles.

But they are not assault rifles, and according to the government they are in fact very different from the rifles used by the military.

The typical similar rifle used by the military would, instead of being completely legal as a regular old title 1 buy it and walk out firearm, would be years in prison federal felony for being a machine gun and a short barrel rifle.

If the control folks are going to try to claim than a semi auto AR type rifle is an assault rifle, or a weapon of war, or substantially similar to what the military uses, it needs to be okay for it to be select fire and have a barrel shorter than 16"

Functionally they are equivalent to other semi automatic rifles. Having a more ergonomic grip due to the straight-back operation of the bolt, having a flash hider, being adjustable to more readily fit different people of different sizes…these are absolutely asinine things to regulate.

I mean…oh noes…this rifle is easier to hit your target with for more people than other rifles…can’t have that we want more innocent bystanders hit…wait…no…hmmm…talk about a lack of logic. Oh, I know, we want everyone to use “hunting rifles” with big old .30 bullets at triple the mass of a 5.56 because home defense rifles should go through more walls…wait…hmmm…

It makes no sense and the reason the term “assault rifle” or “assault weapon” is used is to mislead and deceive ignorant people into thinking they are something they are not to help get bans to pass

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OH DUDE, You just entered the twilight zone. We had a straight up knock down drag out brawl over this stuff a while back, it included
Bullet vs Round vs Shell
Clip vs Magazine
Gun vs Firearm
Assault Rifle vs Armalite
Rights vs Preivledges
Automatic vs Machine Gun
Alligator vs Crocodile
and a few other subjects that slip the trivial part of my mind at the moment.

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I get there are differences between mil spec AR pattern rifles and the ones that civilians can own. I also get that you think they are not assault rifles. I just think this the grammar fight isn’t worth having, especially since so many people do use the term assault rifle for any AR/AK pattern rifle. It isn’t just the people arguing that they should be banned.

I just think that label ship has sailed. I’d rather focus on the arguments that demonstrate that law abiding citizens have a right to have them.

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Lol. I’m sure whatever you have forgotten will come back to you!

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It’s not grammar, though. The difference is literally legal vs felonious. And it is a weaponized term whose purpose is to mislead people.

Do you realize how many people think “assault rifle” means it’s a machine gun? Go out and ask non gun people sometime and see how many people think an “assault rifle” means it’s full auto and is made to indiscriminately just spray bullets. And referring to a semi automatic rifle as “assault __” is objectively wrong.

It’s no different than calling a Glock 17 with a factory 17 round magazine a “high capacity” magazine. No, that is a standard capacity magazine.

In order to have any argument or debate, the absolutely critical first step is to agree to a definition of terms. If you want to call a semi automatic title 1 “rifle” as an “assault rifle” or “assault weapon”, please only do so with people to whom you have agreed that the definition of ‘assault rifle’ is a semi automatic rifle with certain features such as grip that is easy to grasp, a stock that adjusts to different users, a threaded barrel allowing different muzzles devices to be attached, etc.

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I think the generalized term “assault weapon” has no legal binding. If your weapon is legal then it definitionally not felonious. I don’t know if your hypothesis that the general non-gun public’s internal definition of “assault rifle” = automatic weapon is correct. It maybe. I could be wrong, but I think that the public is more sophisticated on this point. I’m sure many gun control advocates use the term in a weaponized way.

That said, I absolutely think you are correct to establish whatever definitions you think are important in having a conversation with someone to avoid confusion. I don’t use the term “assault rifle” personally. I just don’t think that getting a open minded gun control advocate to call an AR/AK patterned rifle a semi-automatic rifle will affect their stance on them at all, at least not more so than arguments about why they are okay for law abiding citizens to have. Definitely always good policy to clear up automatic vs semiautomatic though!

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They aren’t.

I suggest asking as many non-gun people as you can find, for awhile, something to ascertain what they think an “assault rifle” is.

It will be eye opening

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Without getting too far into the weeds here, language controls culture and language evolves.
If someone says they need a KLEENEX and you give them a Puffs or some generic tissue they basically still got what they needed.
It’s an operational definition, and those operational definitions allow us to communicate.
Unfortunately, the media/society has decided that “AR” means assault rifle and that’s what will be understood by most of society.
An academic discussion of what AR really means is much like telling someone you don’t have a Kleenex when they can see the box of Puffs on your desk.
Assault rifle is a made up term used to demonize any rifle that bears a resemblance to the Stoner design.
I could be wrong, but I’m old enough that when I was in high school a fag was a cigarette.

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