ABC's of gun ownership

Firearm Training
21

I haven’t been carrying all the time due to my new job.

  1. I’ve only been there a month.

  2. I’m testing out the environment

  3. I currently do not have a holster to accomplish me yet.

I’m testing it out seeing what I can get away with but I will tell you what I notice.

  1. You can’t have your phone out, unless you’re a girl, they seem to always catch that.

  2. Can’t stand and do nothing when there’s nothing to do with downtime, except for when you’re a girl.

  3. Hardly anybody’s bag is check, and tons of people get away with sneaking off with vapes and THC carts, and going outside and smoking blunts right outside the building in a drug free work place.

So I’m going to wait till after my 90 days to start carrying in my work bag which is a conceal carry bag from elite survival systems.

I know the downsides of the bag, I’ve heard you have a less of a right to your bag vs your person, but courts have found if they search you it must be a reasonable search, and even though it’s a bag, they can’t invade your privacy with that bag.

Our handbook pretty much states, if you’re caught with it you’re fired….

“It is policy of company to provide all team members with a safe, violence-free workplace.
Therefore, threats, threatening behavior or acts of violence against Team Members, visitors, guests or other individuals by anyone on company property are prohibited and will not be tolerated. Such actions should be reported to a Supervisor and/or Human Resources immediately so the appropriate action can be taken.

Company specifically prohibits the following and will routinely discipline an employee up to and including discharge for any of the following: these rules are not all inclusive, and other regulations may exist.

  1. Physical Assaults - Any Physical assault such as hitting, pushing, kicking, holding or other unwelcome touching.

  2. Threatening behavior - Any Threats, including direct verbal threats, veiled threats, menacing gestures, harassing phone calls or stalking.

  3. Possession of weapons - Any possession of weapons, including Firearms, knives, chains, dangerous chemicals, explosives or other objects carried for the purpose of injuring or intimidating others.

  4. Use, possession, or sale of any weapon described as above.

  5. Storing any weapon in a locker, desk, lunch box, tool kit, bag, purse or other repository on the worksite or other premises.

  6. Illegal possession, use, or sale of a weapon off company property that adversely affects his/her own or others safety at work, or indicates propensity for same as this violates company code ethics and of the criminal justice system.

  7. Refusing to submit to an inspection using an outside law enforcement officer for the presence of a weapon that is requested by the company with reasonable cause.

  8. Conviction under any criminal statute for the illegal possession of a weapon or for committing a violent act against the person or property of another if not disclosed on application.

  9. Refusing to participate in an investigation pertaining to allegations or reasonable suspicion that violence has or is likely to occur, or an investigation pertaining to the carrying of a weapon by the employee or a co-employee.

  10. Verbal or physical threats of any kind, threatening gestures, or statements which suggests a propensity toward violence, which may include belligerent speech, excessive arguing or swearing, sabotage or threats of sabotage of company property, or demonstrated patter of refusing to follow company policies or procedures.

Team members are encourage to report violations of this policy to a supervisor or to human resources. Team members are encouraged to err on the side of safety, when determining whether to report anything which may constitute a violation of this policy. Retaliation against individuals report, violations of this policy is strictly prohibited.

In addition, if any team member feels that he or she is in danger of suffering, an injury, notify human resources so that an assessment of the appropriate security measures can be made and undertaken.

Anyone who makes threats of physical harm, exhibit threatening behavior, or engages in physical or violence acts on company property will be disciplined, up to, including termination of employment. In keeping with our commitment to provide a safe workplace, the possession or use of any weapons, guns, knives, etc, explosives, or other hazardous substance or devices on company property is also prohibited.”

My friend got me hired in there and he knows I carry and I told him, we keep it quiet about me carrying a gun outside of work, so I don’t have to go through the hassle of a search. He doesn’t agree with me carrying inside of work, but he doesn’t need to know that, but so far he’s been good on his promise.

But again I carried against company policy of my gas station for almost 5 years, and one of the maintenance guys at my old job carried his gun into meetings, even though it’s against company policy, and everyone would know when he carried it, and they didn’t have any security to deal with him, so they let him keep working, when it was found out I was carrying, they made me sign papers acknowledging that I allow the company to search my person and my vehicle, and throughout that time nobody ever searched and I continued to carry.

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22

I won’t brother, there is plenty to go around. I’ll even share!

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23

I will say, the least secured room in the building is the HR room. So if a mass shooting was to occur, I probably wouldn’t have to deal with HR after grabbing my gun defensively.

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24

You can get fired lots of times. You can only get dead once.

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25

There are many situations where you just can’t carry as you show. It’s all the other times that we make a choice. I have a firearm next to me at all times at home. I don’;t leave the house without a knife, a wallet and a pistol at minimum. Don’t forget the 1st aid kit that is always in car and second 1 at home.
On a you tube channel i follow, someone mentioned lawn mowing. I stated I was glad I’m not the only one to carry while mowing. Someone replied by calling me a homicidal maniac and questioned my being afraid of every blade of grass etc. :rofl: I’m not afraid because I am always ready. I refuse to be a statistic. Even in the shower.

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26

It’s not crazy at all carrying while mowing (or working in the yard). Along with being more vulnerable because the sound of the mower drowns things out, there can be real hazards as well.

I live in an area with diamondbacks, cottonmouths, gators and ferral hogs. I never work around the property without my revolver, and I set it up with 2 snake shot cartridges followed by hard cast “Keith” wildlife rounds.

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27

Wise choices! Those snake shot cartridges are excellent self-defense rounds against two-legged critters, too, especially the CCI blue ones with the plastic shot encasement.

A friend of mine owned a shoe/leather repair shop downtown with his .38 tucked under his work apron all the time. He explained his reasoning for choosing the CCI Glaser round for EDC by saying, “They’re designed for close quarters self-defense like under15 feet, they’re loaded with #12 (or #9) shot so they do massive vascular and tissue damage and and if they do penetrate the front glass windows of my store they’ll just drop on the street - no over-penetration worries!”

He also confided, he figured the surgeon who patched up a lucky survivor would have one heckuva time finding ALL the small shot in the wound, and they would be a periodic reminder to the perpetrator for the rest of his life of his transgression as they worked their way to the surface or caused other problems.

The newer Red 4 version has fewer pellets (#4 shot), a smaller payload by weight and higher muzzle velocity, penetration and and energy. But it’s still a shot shell - 25 pellets + or - vs 110 to 150 + or - depending on caliber.

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28

The thing is, they aren’t a good choice for self defense against persons. Not enough penetration. For reliable physiological stops (well, as reliable as handguns get), it’s really about shot placement + penetration as by far and away the two most important factors. The stuff that penetrates so woefully is objectively not a strong choice. This is why you will find zero professionals or agencies, ever, carrying or issuing something like this for defense against persons, and zero subject matter experts recommending it.

Something that doesn’t present a danger to others after going through a glass window simply doesn’t penetrate enough to be relied upon to stop an attacker

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29

I wouldn’t rely on the snake shot shells for defense against anything but snakes. At 3 yards they’ll blow a nice 4" hole into a cardboard target, but I wouldn’t expect them to penetrate center mass on a human enough to quickly stop the threat. Maybe if you could hit the neck or face you’d get good stopping power, and they’re better than nothing, of course.

I’ve tried the red and blue CCI versions and feel like both would do quite well against snakes, but the blue seems better with the more and smaller shot, at least from the snubby.

My plan, if I encountered a dangerous boar, gator or primate, would be to quickly pull through the two snake cartridges, aiming at the face if possible, then rely on the heavy hard cast keith bullets to do their thing. In the environment where I’m loaded that way, over-penetration isn’t a concern.

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30

Personally I think the reason most people who can carry do not carry, is they chose a firearm that is not proper for them to carry.

Too many times a firearm is chosen based on what a person read or was advised to purchase, versus purchasing a firearm that match’s their lifestyle and body.

Depending on how I am going to carry i will have a 6 + 1 .380 using a IWB holster or a reduced size 6+1 .45 ACP.

The reason for choosing those firearms is the size of the firearm versus the size of my body, I have a slight build and don’t wear baggy clothing which wouldn’t be a good match for say a Glock 17.

Now some might say that’s dumb you only have 7 rounds, my answer to that is I would rather have 7 rounds in the gun I am carrying than 15 rounds in a gun secured back in my truck.

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31

If everybody who was legally able to carry would actually carry a 6+1 .380 everywhere legal all the time we’d be a lot better off and there would be a hell of a lot more people carrying at any given time

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32

I thought this might fit here. From USCCSA today. Timeless words from the past for the present. :thinking:

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33

That is good!
“Fast is fine but accuracy is final. You must learn to be slow in a hurry.”

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34

Balance of speed and accuracy + slow is smooth, smooth is fast = live for another day.

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35

I only carried once when I went hiking a few weeks ago. It’s been many years since I became a USCCA member but I allowed fear of stupid mandates to prevent me from carrying. Now I’m waiting for my custom-made holster so that I can begin taking classes. I want to be responsibly and effectively armed but I won’t conceal carry regularly until I take at least one class. Even if I had a permit, I wouldn’t conceal carry until I knew I was prepared.

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36

@Ernest_G , you’re wise to know your limitations, and the need for education. Carrying is a big responsibility, from many different points of view, and you can’t be trained enough, in my opinion. USCCA is the best resource out there for training and education.

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37

Many years ago back in 1985 I attended a press conference held by the City of Miami PD.

They where demonstrating a new shoot, don’t shoot simulator they had purchased, in part because of the shooting of Nevell Johnson Jr by officer Luis Alvarez.

Johnson a young black man was killed resulting in a couple days of rioting.

If I remember properly the sim cost them over a million dollars, which nowadays would be over four million.

The system was installed in a warehouse and consisted of a decommissioned Dodge Diplomat with a reverse projection screen about 20 feet ahead of the hood of the Dip.

The operator could change the projection system on the fly, for example it could project a seemingly aggravated person yelling at you, who suddenly reached behind himself and pulled out a wallet, if you shot him you failed, or he could pull a gun and if you didn’t shoot him in time, you failed.

The event was attended mostly by news reporters and cameramen, the only non-news people there where myself a friend and a young man, who wanted to become a law enforcement officer.

They way they worked it was two people at a time who would be allowed into the sim, you could not go in before your turn nor could stay and watch after your turn.

When it was my turn they matched me with the other civilian, not my friend, one thing I noticed was the observers seemed to be closely watching both of us, my theory was because we where civis, young, I had long hair down to my waist and my partner was a young black man.

We where issued standard 6 round revolvers loaded with blanks, we got the simulation where the guy pulled a gun.

The sim started with my partner driving with I riding shotgun, there was a radio installed in the Dip, we received a dispatch about a suspicious person, I picked up the microphone answered back “show us 51 on the 13.”

I was using Broward codes not realizing Miami used a different code system, it didn’t matter as the observers understood what I had said and where probably wondering why a long haired maggot infested hippy would use such codes.

We both saw the person stopped the car and I called in show us 97 with the 13 at (address).

We both got and as instructed stayed behind the doors of the DIP, I yelled at the guy to keep his hands where i could see them, he was not cooperative and the sim was taking over my chain of thought, I yelled once again keep your mother**** hands where I can see them.

The guy pulled a gun, my partner shouted he’s got a gun which I saw and both of us began firing, I got off three rounds and my partner fired two, the guy dropped and the sim was over.

We passed.

We where then taken to another room and EMS checked us out, I was ordered to lay on a cot and stay there, my BP was through the roof, my partner was told to do the same.

My partner asked me what the He** was that all about, my answer was I think we just killed the guy.

EMS came back with a couple of MPD officers, a uniform and a detective, EMS decided we needed to hang around for another 15 minutes as my partners BP was still elevated and mine was even higher to the point I was getting a headache.

EMS left and the uniform, who was a Sergeant asked me point blank if I was a UC, I advised him I am not a UC, are you sure about that, yes sir I am not a UC.

Ok I’ll go along with that, but explain where did you learn those codes, those are Broward County codes and you shortened them as well.

I explained I ride once a week with the City of Fort Lauderdale PD as a citizen observer, the uniform looked at me like SoAB.

Then it was my partners turn and it turned out both of the LEO’s where quite pleased he wanted to become one of them.

Then we where shown something very interesting, they had cameras all over the sim that where watching us and with that video they could determine where we aimed and how many shots where fired by each of us.

Both of us made good COM shots, they where also able to determine why my partner only got off two shots while I had three.

As he exited the car he tried to pull the hammer back and it didn’t stay back.

After the Alvarez shooting the Miami PD had all of their issued guns modified to be DA only, they had caught a lot of legal flack because Alvarez was accused of cocking his revolver, which the State claimed made it a more dangerous firearm.

I was never a revolver person, as such I didn’t even think of cocking the hammer back.

It was a truly amazing experience, prior to that I never realized how fast things could go South and found myself in a position where I had only a fraction of a second to decide to shoot and survive or hesitate and die.

And while it as nothing more than a huge video game, something I never got into, it was strange just how fast one forgets it’s really a game, when your mind is telling you someone is going to kill you and without even realizing it you fall back on your training, aim well and shoot fast,

In closing I must thank a amazing instructor I met years ago named Paul Baker Jr, he got me on the track of learning to train as i will fight and I will fight as i have trained.

Learning his way of training saved my life in that sim and I pray I will never need to use my skills ever again, at the moment it really messed with my head I honestly thought I killed a man while all I did was shoot blanks at a screen.

It so real literally it took me a couple of years to get over it and the nightmares stopped happening .

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38

I fully agree, with the caveat 6+1 is useless or even dangerous without training, not just in the operation of a firearm, but the laws connected to possession and using a firearm, carrying is only half of the equation, full training should be self imposed as mandatory.

Don’t get me wrong, i don’t want training to be required by statute as that can be abused, I just want people who own or carry, mandate for themselves to become trained and highly proficient with using the tool they have chosen to carry and to understand when it can be legally deployed.

I’ll give you a good example of what not to do.

Our Sheriff Steve Whidden and his deputies are very supportive of citizens being able to bare and carry firearms for self defense.

They also can become very anti-gun when someone does stupid with a firearm.

For a while now we have had a problem with residential burglaries, last week they got a call about a couple of suspicious men, HCSO responded quickly and set up surveillance on these guys, at the time all they where doing was trespassing, but it is believed they where checking out a home they planned on breaking into.

They (HCSO) where literally in the surrounding woods video taping theses two guys trying to build a case on them.

Well a neighbors dog began barking, the dogs owner steps outside carrying a semi-auto rifle, he sees the guys HCSO has under surveillance.

So what does this yahoo do?

He fires a warning shot into the ground and orders them to get the He** out of there.

That blew up the entire operation, the suspects flee and HCSO let them go as they don’t want them on a misdemeanor.trespassing charge, they want to nail them hard with felony burglary charges.

Unfortunately for the yahoo it is explained to him that firing a “warning shot” is in Florida a felony, but they cut the guy a break and just confiscate his rifle.

And they will not give him his rifle back, the only way he will get it back is to lawyer up and sue the HCSO, a process that will be thousands of dollars more then the value of the rifle.

The right to possess a firearm for self defense should never be restricted, but with that right comes a lot of responsibility and if law abiding firearm owners do not self mandate training, the anti-gunners are going to use that lack of training to code into statute, with every chance they get, to shove training upon us and their version of “proper” training will be very expensive and difficult to comply with.

So don’t provide the anti’s that form of ammo to shoot us down with, because they will, never forget most anti-gunners are mentally sick people and are pawns of a well heeled anti-gun lobby.

They cannot be compromised with.

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39

It occurs to me that Florida requires proof of training to get a carry permit, and your example occurred in Florida. Just sayin’

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40

Just a thought from Mass. :thinking:

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