A Topic Tim Is Not Going To Like But Has To Be Addressed Just The Same

Miscellaneous
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I’m hoping that my post will not be viewed as uncouth bringing up this particular subject, however, I’ve been a member for about seven years now and this observation I have has just been relentlessly gnawing at me and I have to get it out. I just can not relax until someone, ANYONE discusses this matter with me.

The reason I precursor(ed) my post regarding the topic being uncool is because it has to do with a competitor and I’m not sure this is the place to bring it up, or if in fact it may just be the very place TO bring it up. But I’ll find out soon enough.

Either I’ll get positive and/or negative responses, or it just may entirely be pulled because of its competitive sensitivities. Again, I’ll see.

I’m a Platinum member, which will have some, after further reading my concern(s), questioning my comparison of apples and oranges, but I first ask to be heard because in order to keep all things equal, I would be more than happy to upgrade to the Elite level had I some additional information at hand, which is why I’m posting the issue here and now. I need some thoughts and views from others outside me because I am too close to myself to do so on my own.

So with all that stated, here is my issue or quandary. Whatever the word or words would be, it is bothering me and it won’t stop until I get some answers, or at the very least, some sensible responses.

USCCA’s top Elite policy very closely matches that of the higher top level CCW Safe policy or combinations thereof and both are virtually the same prices tit for tat per line by line item and the annual cost for both are the same save for the difference in a cup of coffee.

Like I said, they both very closely match each other. They do, but then again in major other ways they don’t and I consider those differences very significant.

Aside from a majority of benefits, there is some give and take between the two, even though to me, CCW Safe has a tad more edge, but where the real meat of the matter lay is that while USCCA has a very large coverage amount, CCW Safe has absolutely no limits in either criminal or civil defense spending. Read that again. Unlimited funding, albeit I believe CCW Safe attorneys decide whether or not they will accept a case, which in and of itself is a big turn-off as well.

But on the other hand, that is like being asked if you had to drive across the Mohave desert in either a car with limited fuel or one with unlimited fuel, which vehicle would you choose?

CCW Safe also provides $100K vs $50K in bail bond services and $1M for civil damages that is NOT shared with or comes out of the civil defense limit as it does with USCCA coverage.

Even their firearm loss theft protection is a full fledged actual replacement program and not shared with the personal hardship coverage as USCCA has it set up as and additionally on top of all that, they include work loss compensation, psychological counseling and crime-scene cleanup coverage’s, something USCCA used to include but no longer does.

I COULD be wrong about the work loss and counseling. I am NOT sure of those two.

But the other thing that bothers me is that New York put the NRA Carry Guard out of business because it was an insurance operation, however, CCW Safe is listed not as an insurance provider but rather a legal services membership plan. There is a HUGE difference in wording and wording is what the laws and courts go by.

It worries me that USCCA could be in the same boat as Carry Guard, which may or may not be the reason CCW Safe is good in ALL 50 states while USCCA is not allowed or available in NY and WA. AGAIN, I COULD be wrong about those two states and it could have changed unbeknownst to my current knowledge. So I am CLAIMING here and now that I MAY have SOME things incorrect here.

In conclusion, the reason I post this is that my absolute biggest issue here is the unlimited coverage’s offered by CCW Safe. That is a huge difference.

So if this post is allowed, anyone have any thoughts, ideas, input, corrections or otherwise on this matter, 'cause I sure as heck need to discuss it?

Ciao.

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I think USCCA still covers those things…I hope!

@Dawn is this true?

But there is nothing wrong with comparison…
I always saw better with USCCA though…Unless those things have changed.

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You are correct Randall. It does have to be discussed and I too need to have the facts all laid out in front of me. Or is it layed out. Or is it lie or lay or whatever?

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My wife and i would be very interested. I know someone who carries both as i do.

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If you have both then you are familiar with both I’m assuming here and you can help us understand and weight the differences maybe???

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I am SO GLAD you asked, @fox! We want you to question and know about your membership! We want you to have the best possible protection for you and your family!

There are a number of differences between the two programs. A few of the important ones include:

  • All USCCA memberships include the civil liability and bond coverage (they’re not add ons)
  • The USCCA membership agreement does not have a domestic violence or alcohol exclusion
  • Your USCCA membership is there for your liability assistance if your firearm is stolen and used in the commission of a crime

Here are a couple of the things you’re asking about @fox, you can find these details in the Membership Agreement:

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This is from the Membership Agreement on 3/17/20 - and subject to change. Please refer to the Membership Agreement for the latest terms and conditions of USCCA Membership. (Eww, that was way too lawyer-esk for me.)

Your membership can help you in all 50 states - we just cannot sell memberships in NY and WA at this time. (That is diligently being worked on as I type.)

We do not have unlimited coverage or make you work with an assigned attorney. We allow you to choose the attorney you want to work with and have approximately 1000 vetted self-defense attorneys for you to choose from.

I’m sure there are other questions and I’m happy to help in any way I can… I am also happy to hear feedback and suggestions. Unless otherwise tagged, I’ll just be watching the conversation so you all can discuss without “big brother” interfering. :wink:

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What you didn’t ask @fox or should I say mention, was do you have a CCW or other state carry permit? I believe CCW safe requires you to have a permit. If you move or travel through a state that doesn’t honor your permit then you aren’t covered by CCW safe. That was the information garnered from a site comparing the five top CCW coverage.

To be honest I didn’t think about firearm coverage till I got a CCW. During the process of getting my CCW one of the processors suggested looking into the then Active NRA coverage. Before I committed myself I researched the different plans at the time and found USCCA met more of my needs at the time. I was traveling and several states didn’t recognize my CCW. Then I moved last year and while I could use my CCW for 90 days once I got my new drivers license I was pretty much sans CCW till my new state issued me a new one. I know it is not a normal consideration to many but it was to me.

I have been contacted by US and TX Law Shield and they have soe of the same benefits of CCW Safe “but” they offer reimbursement rather than up front coverage.

So for me it came down to customer service and coverage for all weapons use. From what I understand if I can’t get to my primary EDC and I am forced to use knife, club or car jack to defend myself USCCA will cover me. Your needs may be totally different.

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I just went over those last week! That’s why I was little confused on what @fox was saying because knew I had seen some of those listed.

But I love legal “mumbo-jumbo” I’ll eventually [Lord willing] have to get used to reading stuff like that.

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Ur’ not big brother tho Dawn. Sister, ok. But not brother and you’re husband will surely back me on that one as well.

But we DO need you in the conversation. And this still needs discussion because I’m dizzy with all of these charts and the only feasible means I can clearly and distinctly understand the differences is with side by side comparisons and each addressed individually, otherwise I keep ending up back in the same boat and I’m all the more confused. I look at those yellow columns like all the others have and it just overwhelmes me.

First, regarding the civil liability and bond coverage’s. They are not add-ons with CCW. Yes, I understand they have three levels, but that’s why I stated equal to their top level -OR- combinations thereof. Whether those come WITH their top plan or two plans added together, they amount to both those coverage’s for virtually the same pricing and are higher coverage’s as well. Period. Yes? No? Am I missing something here?

I understand as you say that my membership is there for my liability assistance in the event of a stolen weapon, but CCW does that as well and does it as a full fledged coverage that does not come out of any other of the plan’s coverage’s. Yes? No?

Work loss, psychological counseling and crime-scene clean-up? Did USCCA used to have these but no longer does? I can’t seem to get the straight info on some of these things. Not you, because this is your first input. I’m speaking in general terms regarding myself only.

USCCA has an insurance underwriter, yes? As such, that makes the policy an insurance underwriting, yes? No? And if yes, it can fall under the same laws that put Carry Guard under, although I completely disagree with the law’s terms and wording because it’s all nothing but hypocritical as far as I’m concerned. No, wait. It IS hypocritical. Not just by my concerns. It is. But nonetheless, the same could befall USCCA and I am thinking THIS is WHY USCCA is currently working to get into NY and WA, because of that very reason.

It has nothing to do with me being covered in those states as you say. It has to do with the very foundation of what USCCA is versus what CCW Safe is. That’s the issue for me.

But again, the biggest issue is the unlimited funding in two areas that USCCA has caps on and I’m looking for answers that I can fulfill my satisfaction that one is just as good as the other, but right now I just don’t see how that can ever be. I just can’t.

I’m not trying to pit one against the other nor am I berating my carrier. I just need to get these things straight in my head with all the fluff put aside because to me, the number one issue is coverage. That comes first and foremost before any training, magazines, etc.

I think you can agree with me on that without outright saying so, which I would never expect or ask of you to do so.

Your thoughts back to you Dawn. OR anyone else for that matter.

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@Robert5. Yes, I have several state licenses. I have five altogether to cover a majority of the states. Why do you raise that question?

When you say that CCW doesn’t cover you in a state that doesn’t recognize your home license, I don’t think USCCA does either. I believe we have to be within the laws for coverage, but I could be mistaken, which is exactly why I am now trying to clear things up.

But even now, everyone keeps saying I think, I believe, I thought I saw. See what I mean. I need to know the exact differences so that I can make an educated judgement of if I am covered the way I want to be.

And I do also think CCW does cover for any weapons as well.

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Ok - let me answer what I can. As much as possible, I will stick with what the USCCA does as I am not up to date on the very latest of what the other does.

USCCA offers legal protection, we are not a prepaid legal service. I know it sounds like semantics and may be confusing, but the two organizations are different.

There is a loss of earnings as part of the civil defense and damages section. Crime-scene clean-up is also included in your USCCA membership.

The unlimited funding option is one that always makes me (personally) scratch my head. Funding is never unlimited. While it’s a phrase that makes us feel good, everything has its limits.

For me, the education and training are as important as the legal protection. With that education and training, there is a better chance that you’ll be able to protect yourself better in every aspect. If you know how to avoid a dangerous situation by training and practicing situational awareness, you won’t need to physically defend yourself. If you can train yourself to not shoot after you’ve drawn when the threat starts to run away at the sight of the gun, your legal defense will be greatly diminished. There are differences and I’ll go for the training and education that helps me avoid the situation as much as possible so I get home to my family as safely and quickly as possible.

The two organizations are very different while having some similar offerings. I know- I’ve made it clear as mud for you, haven’t I? I wish I had a more concrete answer for you, @fox, but it’s very subjective to what you’re looking for and need. Do you need “unlimited funding” for your legal defense? Or do you need the training and education that will help you avoid needing as much legal defense?

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You’re not a “customer” to us, @Robert5. You’re family. I know that sounds hokey to some, but once you start talking to us, you’ll see it’s how we all feel. And you probably get better treatment than some of our family members do :rofl:

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I’m not worried about training. I’ve had all kinds of tactical and otherwise of training and shooting houses. A life-time of it as a matter of fact. I’m NOT saying I know it all or have nothing more to learn. Not saying that at all.

But I’m going on 70 next December, so all of my weapons, training, skills, etc., are about as good to me now as a wet dish rag. I’ll never be as I was. Not even close. I have all to do to bend over to pick up a piece of lint fer’ cryin’out-loud already 'dere. lol

But CCW DID just get through covering a 3-4 year case for a customer and they did issue
unlimited funds. It’s all documented. So you can SEE WHY this sorta’ bothers me Dawn.

No, I have no need for unlimited and I’m hoping I never have a need period, but as I stated in my original post, it’s the question of which car would you pick if there were a choice and you had to cross a large desert in it. One with a limited fuel supply or one with an unlimited supply. There is just no comparison there, needed or not.

And even what you stated that USCCA provides, you even confirmed that some of your coverage’s do in fact come out of other coverage’s, thereby reducing the overall amount of coverage. It’s very bothersome to me Dawn. I’m faithful to you guys, but you know as well as I that faithfulness can go only so far. It’s reasonable to expect.

I guess what I’m looking for is a bullet by bullet, line by line comparison in plain language that clearly and transparently shows by each line the winner and loser. But I am not asking for that because I know that’s a lot to ask for. Therein my internal frustration as of late. Very gut wrenching to say the least.

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Was a duplicate post. My computer is duplicating everything this past week. Having connection and latency issues, so just ignore the notice that I withdrew a post.

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The winner and loser is going to be subjective based on what you’re looking for, @fox. You have valid concerns.

I’d suggest going back to that case and see what the situation was. Would it be something you’d have gotten yourself into? Or was it a questionable self-defense act that could have gone either way? (I truly don’t know and would LOVE to know more about that case myself.)

I’m not going to tell you that you’ll never need to legally defend yourself - we all pray you don’t have to physically defend yourself! But we have your back if you need to legally defend your self-defense actions.

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^This would be my biggest concern ^

That’s if CCW will even allow the vehicle start for you, right?

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The reason I mentioned a permit Because I researched the different plans before I made my decision I copied and printed to a file the ones that were closest to what I wanted. From Both comparison sites I got this for CCW safe, " You must have a CCW permit in order to sign up with CCW Safe or live in a state where a permit is not required. Otherwise, you’ll only be able to sign up for their Home Defense plan."
From the CCW safe site itself. " 1. Member Requirements :

In accordance with your selected plan and level of service, any Covered Member must either have a valid state concealed weapon permit issued in Covered Member’s name, or, for active and retired law enforcement officers, be qualified and covered under “LEOSA-HR218”, and not be a prohibited person to possess a firearm by state or federal law to be eligible for any services offered by CCW Safe.

Looking at getting coverage as soon as I started the process I looked at this from the same sites and the USCCA site. " You do NOT need a concealed carry permit to become a USCCA Member.

You can enjoy all of the self-defense education, training and legal protection benefits that our USCCA Membership levels have to offer wherever you are in your self-defense journey.

In states where my permit wasn’t honored, New Mexico comes to mind, I could carry the weapon in the car. If something happened and I had to retrieve it and use it at least I had coverage even in that state.

You might not find such a concern necessary.

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Dawn I would like to add that after calling several times while getting my shooting instructors certification and other situations, I definitely felt like family and never got the impression that anyone I talked to was in a hurry to go to the next call. (that was long winded, sorry). Mike

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I am not saying this to be brash @fox, but I have to suggest that you compare the benefits of each of the plans that you are interested in. I did the math several years ago when I switched from NRAs Carry Guard to USCCA. At the time, most plans were reimbursement plans and USCCA was very different. CCW Safe and USCCA have differences.
I find it interesting that CCW has a link named “Competitor Comparison” that lists their benefits and then says “There is no comparison!”
What you need to do is actually look at the service plans of each entity and decide what has the greatest value to you. This is not something USCCA or CCW Safe can do for you.
Here are the USCCA Membership Agreement https://www.usccamemberterms.com/
Here are the CCW Safe Terms of Service Terms & Conditions - CCW Safe

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Unfortunately, I do not think you can have that no matter which companies you decide to compare. As you’ve seen, each company has different coverage amounts that are applied differently in different situations. There isn’t a lot of apples to apples. At best you’ll get apples to apple pie :wink:

If unlimited coverage really is the thing that will make or break your decision, there is only one that I know of that does it and that is CCW Safe. I would highly encourage you to read all the fine print and make sure there are no gotchas, and if there are gotchas that they don’t apply to you or you feel pretty confident you won’t run afoul of them. I know in pretty much every other industry “unlimited” is NEVER really “unlimited”, I don’t see why this would be different, so for me that is a red flag to avoid.

YMMV of course, and there is no one choice that is perfect for everyone. It is good that we have options to choose from out there.

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