A Topic Tim Is Not Going To Like But Has To Be Addressed Just The Same

“^This would be my biggest concern ^”
Mine too Ben. Mine too sir.

“That’s if CCW will even allow the vehicle start for you, right?”
That is absolutely correct Ben. Dead on target there. (pun intended)

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" " You must have a CCW permit in order to sign up with CCW Safe or live in a state where a permit is not required. Otherwise, you’ll only be able to sign up for their Home Defense plan."
From the CCW safe site itself. " 1. **Member Requirements :**"

That is absolutely correct Robert and I get that, but in my case, it doesn’t matter, so it’s a moot point with me and therefore still leaves me pondering on point by point coverage’s between the two still.

" Looking at getting coverage as soon as I started the process I looked at this from the same sites and the USCCA site. " You do NOT need a concealed carry permit to become a USCCA Member."

Again, this too is a moot point for me, but just to make sure we’re both on the same page, CCW Safe DOES offer a lower plan for non-licensed people and additional coverage from other plans can be added to it, so it’s right about there at that point that the two converge very closely.

But as I’ve been stating all along, it really doesn’t matter what one is looking for. If both are virtual mirrors of each other but one has unlimited coverage for two forms of insurance or whatever we will agree to call it here, then again, I see no way that there’s even a comparison any longer. Whether one is looking for unlimited or not, it’s there, it’s offered in the plan and it beats a limited coverage hands down every time.

“In states where my permit wasn’t honored, New Mexico comes to mind, I could carry the weapon in the car. If something happened and I had to retrieve it and use it at least I had coverage even in that state.”

Yes, that too is true. Very much just like a mile south of me over the border into Illinois from Wisconsin. Same thing applies there as well.

“You might not find such a concern necessary.”

You could very well be absolutely, unequivocally, 100% correct in that, but again, it’s that unlimited part that keeps coming back to bite me in the rear that becomes the constant pain that just won’t go away. And then when I also start thinking about how other coverage’s come out of other basic package coverage’s while CCW has stand alone coverage’s, then things get more growling for me in my stomach and I find myself reaching for the antacids again. lol

Just tell me…I’m whining and sniveling like an adolescent here, aren’t I?

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I agree. Everyone there is great people. I’ve met 'em all and shook hands and took photos with lots there at an open house. It was very much like the Harley-Davidson open house families. I have no problem with the organization or people. None.

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You’re right Harvey. Each and every word you state is absolutely correct.

All I can say is it does help to get out into the community and talk about it rather than sitting alone letting it fester within…lol…right? …lol

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Thanks MikeBKY. I didn’t take what you said as brash. I truly appreciate the thought you put into your response to me. This is the kind of stuff I’ve been looking for, but in the end when you stated that no one can do it for me, I knew from the very beginning that was going to eventually rear its ugly head and when it did, it kicked reality into me and it wasn’t pleasant. hahaha…

The one good thing about this entire affair is like one of the other respondents stated and you hear this echoed in much the same vein as several other industries, and that is that it is good we all live in such a good place right now that we have these choices. These are good problems to have…lol…

BUT, I STILL very much WOULD like to keep this going whereby a bunch or group and singularly and/or collectively start listing benefits side by side and actually outlining them in plain black and white to effectively better understand the differences between both.

Am I still asking too much here guys???

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@fox
I cannot say you are Whining and I cannot say what would be the better plan for you… Looking at the two plans on the web sights they are just part of the great tradition of competition to me. I assessed my risks, looked at the plans and found the one that fit those needs best, “for me”. Picking my own lawyer was important. For my situation at the time I signed up I felt getting $750.00 a day while in court was more important than getting $350.00 a day from CCW safe. I even looked through the list of Lawyers provided in my area and picked one out and made contact before I ever started carrying. And I have had lots of interaction with USCCA when I got ready to move and change addresses.

None of that may be of any interest to you and none of that might cancel out the need for more than 2 million dollars to defend you in court should you ever need it. But those are easily compared differences between the two companies on paper. Now the ball is in your court. Like I said my reasons are different than yours But 60 days of court time would net my wife $45,000.00 with USCCA and only 21,000.00 from CCW Safe.

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Some of the things you mention as not mattering to you, do matter to others and so those things (sometimes tangible, sometimes intangible) add up for the decision point critical mass.

E.g. My spouse is not a CCW but I am, so USCCA covers us both equally. I enjoy the training aspects and community of knowledge of USCCA. I enjoy the “family” as @Dawn put it. Again sounds hokey, but the last USCCA expo I was at it felt like a big ol family reunion.

Those things matter to some.

The other thing is this…do you read all the fine print of your cell phone plan or credit cards? Not if you’re like the mass majority of us, you compare the surface level benefits (data plans, interest rates etc), and then make a decision.

Once you have 80% of the facts…don’t get caught in analysis paralysis, make a decision and embrace it knowing it’s the best decision for you with the information that you’ve analyzed.

Otherwise you’ll be sitting there sorting the pepper from the potatoes.

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analysis paralysis. That is the perfect set of words for the state that I’m in.

You’re right about none of us reading the fine print and that too hits the nail on the proverbial head as well. It is that which I was hoping we all could put our collective studies together on and come up with the answers I was initially thinking, but then again, that’s a lot of academic study so to speak and the question then begs if it’s all worth it.

And the answer that I keep coming up with is that with all that could be at stake in these matters, it is of course worth it however, what it seems to be boiling down for me is that although I don’t think, and hope it’s never necessary, that I would require over 2.5M of coverage, the fact that unlimited is available both sets a certain comfort level while releasing that gnawing feeling that with limited coverage one could be getting so much more for virtually the same amount. That’s the kind of thinking that falls under the buyer’s remorse code. I also suppose it falls under ‘cheapism’…hahaha…

But then as everyone also keeps saying, basically, be happy with your decision if it does what you need it to do.

And the other thing I suppose I was working toward was a collective discovery of that fine print to in fact discover if they truly are or aren’t unlimited. I have been thinking that the answer to that has to be somewhere in that fine print just waiting to be discovered.

Your analysis paralysis and sorting the wheat from the chaff do themselves also carry much weight and as you and others keep trying to tell me, that it ultimately boils down to my own decision and coming away feeling good about it in the end.

I’m workin’ on it. I’m workin’ on it…lol…

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Thanks again Robert5. I appreciate your input.

I too reviewed the posted link you have here in addition to reading articles by previous USCCA Attorney Andrew Branca who has since left due to differences and now runs in the legal section for CCW Safe as well.

Through my ‘studies’ of this matter if you will, I have discovered that I’m not the only one vastly confused by the similarities and yet differences.

I suppose I thought as a long time USCCA member that we could collectively pool our noodles together to come up with statistical facts supporting USCCA over all other competitors, including CCW Safe, but alas, I don’t think it is to be.

So in Tim’s memorable words, if it is to be, it’s up to me…lol

Thank you for your input Robert5.

Ciao sir.

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The whole replacement gun benefit sounds great, until you consider the fact that the person who is using it, may not be innocent. How does that benefit look during your trial as well? CCWSafe doesn’t sit well with me.

Missing word per comments further down in the discussion. ~Dawn

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I’m not understanding your statement Kage.

I’m not getting the connection between replacement benefit and the person using it possibly being innocent. Please explain.

Also, I am not under trial. I have just been trying to concisely clear up the differences between the two programs, but it’s been harder than it seems.

Please explain why CCW doesn’t sit well with you. I’m interested in hearing what you have to say.

Ciao

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@fox IMO, you might want to speak to an attorney and ask about different types of trusts available that might be relevant to your worries. It doesn’t have to be firearms related. Lawsuits could happen for all sorts of things. For example, it’s my understanding that although some states have financial limits on injury related lawsuits, it often doesn’t include limits on ongoing care.

You might also want to ask if financial restitution from a lawsuit can exceed the assets of the defendant. I’m also wondering if this might play a part into USCCA’s limit, as the amount might be based on USCCA’s funds rather than the defendants.

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Just because you’re presume innocent until proven guilty, doesn’t mean you should be replacing someone’s gun while they’re on trial for a self defense shooting. If that was a benefit that happened after the trial, in case the gun went missing, that is one thing.

The prosecutor could then use that you’re currently armed against you, while you’re on trial.

  • Force used against other family members
  • Force used against people who are in your house with permission or invite
  1. doesn’t protect against domestic violence. What if a woman has an abusive husband?

  2. You can invite anyone one in, but what if they get violent? invite or not doesn’t give them permission to hurt me in my home.

As you point out, the lawyers don’t have to take the case, well, what am I paying them for then? I might as well just save the money up to pay my own lawyer.

As opposed to USCCA, with only a couple nitpicks and one is this

  1. War
    “Bodily injury” or “property damage”, however caused, arising, directly or indirectly, out of:
    (1) War, including undeclared or civil war;
    (2) Warlike action by a military force, including action in hindering or defending against an actual or expected attack, by
    any government, sovereign or other authority using military personnel or other agents; or
    (3) Insurrection, rebellion, revolution, usurped power, or action taken by governmental authority in hindering or
    defending against any of these.

Given COVID and the rise of people buying guns, I’m pretty sure this clause is going to be kicking in, especially if stupidity like this
https://www.fox29.com/news/philadelphia-police-to-delay-arrests-for-certain-non-violent-crimes
hits all 50 states.

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Confusion from CCW Safe Site. Not disparaging them, but they do send false messages with this. The next two images are from the FAQ.

This one is from the comparision. It’s now out of date.

image

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Sorry to throw a quick off topic here, Happy Community Anniversary @Fish!! :tada:

Now back to your on topic conversations. :slight_smile:

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Whatever helps, helps.

I’ll add onto @Robert5’s post with another link from the same site that has a small bulleted list comparing major points across several of the major programs. This will help you whittle the list down a bit as there are other “no limit” programs as well.

Ultimately, I think you may be in a bit of analysis paralysis as @JamesR said. Ultimately, I think either CCW or USCCA are excellent choices and you won’t be “wrong” in picking either. Print out all the fine print from your finalists and circle/highlight/underline whatever seems important to you and compare as best as possible to the others (remember, there wont be 100% apples to apples in most cases).

Usually, the choice makes itself once you’ve listed the pros/cons that are important to you from all that reading. And if it doesn’t make it clear by obvious facts/numbers (which means they are comparable) then use your gut feeling. And if you still can’t pick one, then flip a coin.

And regardless of the winner, move forward confidently that you’ve made a good choice. And every year or so near renewal time, spend just one day on a weekend comparing the major programs again. Your circumstances may change year to year or the program may have changed in that year and no longer suits you.

Remember you aren’t tied to any program forever, just until the next renewal date.

Note: This is a good habit and should always do this with all contracts, insurance or otherwise, to make sure what we pay for meets our ever changing needs

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lol … then flip a coin…hahaha …

I have to say what you just posted, every word, is solid recommendations. Thank you Harvey.

You and James are correct. I am in analysis paralysis. I hate putting labels to things these days because that’s exactly the strategy that the government uses to group, categorize, file and prosecute with, but in this case, that name was an astounding and perceptive selection and I completely agree.

The list from the hot link article you just posted is one that I never saw or touched upon and so I’ll be sure to go over it. Whether with a fine toothed comb or not however, I don’t know, as I fear it could advance me to sink further into analysis paralysis. LOL

The one gnawing question though that keeps coming back to me and seems that no one is making a big deal about is the fact that CCW offers unlimited coverage in two categories as well as not taking dollars away from one portion of the policy to also cover other parts because each one of their portions are stand-a-lone and independently cover what they do on their own without help from other areas of the contract or policy, whatever they legally are considered.

That’s the one thing I’m just not getting from everyone here and I’m thinking that could be the key to more fully understanding my ‘sickness’. hahaha…

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Regarding “unlimited”, I can give you my $0.02, but that may not fully apply to you or others (and thats OK). And in fact my reasoning may not apply to CCW Safe at all, but its just how I approach that one aspect. I do not view “unlimited” as highly as you do, and I’ll explain why below.

In any other industry, “unlimited” never really means “unlimited”. Especially when whatever they are offering as “unlimited” has a real physical limit that you can run out of (in this case money). What they are usually betting on is that most customers will only use a fraction of the service and that subsidizes the few (or one) really heavy users of that service. And what I’ve typically seen is that eventually those heavy users get kicked out/off for any variety of reasons.

As just one example: I am a web developer, and for a long time there were several web hosts offering “unlimited” visitors, “unlimited” storage, etc. So of course, people dumped GIGABYTES (and in some cases TERABYTES) of data on these hosts (for non-techies, thats a lot of data) because it was unlimited and eventually the hosts cut off their access for abusing the system. Someone always abuses the system. Some of those folks were not able to get their data back out of the service. Companies who ran their sites on the prospect of “unlimited” visitors got an abysmally slow service usually because the heavy users were taking up all the resources. Why? Because underneath the “unlimited” label is a very real limit on the number of hard drives, memory, processors that are used by those sites.

Every one of those web hosts has either removed their “unlimited” service, or put in the Terms Of Service very clear limits on what they really mean by “unlimited” (hint: its not really “unlimited”). I’m not aware of anyone still offering “unlimited” for a fixed price, at least no one reputable. It is not a sustainable business model unless you give everyone crappy service or kick out the users who actually take advantage of “unlimited”.

So for me… I prefer seeing if I pay X then I get Y. If I want more Y then I’ll pay more X. I don’t trust “unlimited” anything. That’s not to say that CCW Safe doesn’t have a good sustainable business model, maybe they do. It’s just that in the few industries that offer “unlimited”, I’ve never seen it end well so my skepticism is pretty high.

Having said all that, I did have CCW Safe on my short list and their “unlimited” was one of the top reasons (along with recommendations by several high-profile people in the industry). The next time I’m up for renewal I will re-evaluate all the competitive options again and maybe that equation tips differently. But for me, USCCA has come out on top for their total package and my clear understanding of what I get and dont get.

Would I like higher coverage available? yes.
Would I like maybe some more customization options to pick and choose what I pay for? maybe.

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hahaha…now back on to the topic…LOL…

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I agree with you completely here. In my experience, the meaning of that words precisely matches what you laid out in your post.

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