I thought the topic was drifting towards should homelessness be illegal???
Unfortunately all these problems tend to feed off of and into each other.
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Good point. I may have inferred wrong. Iāve been saying why I donāt believe drugs should be illegalā¦maybe others are not saying drugs should be illegal but are actually saying being homeless should be illegal
Clarification may be in order
I donāt believe either should be illegal, for the record
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I would agree. And I think most everyone here would agree that homeless people as well as alcohol and drug users should face legal consequences if they commit other crimes and not be given a pass because of their current unfortunate condition.
But that does bring up a grey area that I think a lot of people will not completely agree on. Should someone be charged with a crime simply by having some arbitrary level of drugs or alcohol in their system even if they are otherwise functioning within legal bounds?
Iāve seen some functioning alcoholics in the past who can knock back 4 drinks and still drive much better than some of the horrible drivers Iāve known who never touch alcohol or drugs. And more importantly why should someone loose their right to defend themselves with a firearm because a drop of alcohol may have touched their lips when the typical male can operate a vehicle on public roads with 2 or 3 drinks in their system?
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The death penalty is not a punishment for the guilty but as a deterrent to keep people safe. Rationally thinking people when faced with potentially receiving the death penalty will choose not to premeditatedly kill someone.
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I understand your main concern is decent working people would be impacted, but you dont object in principle to isolating mentally ill, drug addicted, criminal vagrants from the rest of us (I specifically dont want to use the word jail).
OK then. What does employable and mobile person or family do in the area of unaffordable housing?? This is insane. This is akin to staying in disaster area against evacuation orders. What area are you in, not CA? Chicago?
I would move the heck away. Perhaps these people need motivation to seek much better life in Franklin, TN than they have in SF!
That assumes that rational thinking is taking place.
Iād be interested to compare murder rates between death penalty countries and life imprisonment countries with similar demographics and governments. I assume some comparisons have likely already been done between US States??
I strongly suspect that if most people 100% knew they were going to get caught they wouldnāt commit the murder regardless of whether they faced life in prison or the death penalty.
Death is pretty easy. I tried it once and I donāt even remember any of the massive amounts of pain I was told were involved. But being confined to a hospital bed for the next 17 days and then confined to my home for the next several months was pure agony.
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The problem is the lack of jobs in most āaffordableā places. I saw many inexpensive homes when I was living in VT and I really liked living there. But it was a constant struggle to keep piecing together the very limited number of low paying seasonal and part time jobs available there. I could usually afford the rent but I could never get ahead enough to save for a down payment on one of those āaffordableā homes.
There are usually a ton of service, entry and mid level jobs in the expensive places. There are help wanted signs in almost every store around here. But no one can afford to live anywhere near here at the wages those jobs pay. I even know of a lot of nurses who had to quite their jobs and take up traveling positions because they couldnāt afford the rent with their local hospital salaries.
Our economy is creating some significant supply and demand issues.
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I donāt object to trying to find housing and care for people who are completely incapable of caring for themselves. And I definitely donāt have a problem with getting dangerous criminals or people with serious mental issues that clearly make them a danger to others off the streets.
Ideally we could find a system or systems that helps more people off the streets and guides them towards being productive members of society.
Some people are lost causes and their permanent incarceration or death is likely the only answer. But revolving door prisons that donāt provide solid opportunities for those who might be willing to try a better path donāt really help anyone in the long run. They just give us a temporary reprieve from an ever growing number of problems.
There is also the thought of trying to stop some of these revolving doors before they start. One way might be de stigmatizing mental illness so people can find help before they are too far gone. Another option might be creating more clear pathways for people struggling with poverty and mental health issues to find solid jobs. The over emphasis on college as the only way to get ahead in this country really closes the door for all the people who would likely benefit a lot more from trade schools and apprenticeship programs, etc. I knew college wasnāt the right path for me but it was a real struggle working my way into a solid career without other options available. I was pretty close to being homeless on a couple of occasions.
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My topic is civil society, drugs, homeless, crime all fit into that.
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Should drug use be criminal and if so, why?
For the same reason DDT and asbestos is illegal itās not good for people.
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Since I think your source is BS to start, I donāt feel the need to provide any. They are snowflakes whining about how bad the US is.
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Is that why tobacco, energy drinks, sugar, large soda, and alcohol are illegal?
Something being ānot good for peopleā isnāt justification to make it illegal for an adult to choose to consume.
Asbestos isnāt illegal, either. I had to Google it up to be sure, but, you arenāt going to be arrested and put in jail because your home or your car or your backpack have asbestos in them.
Itās also not an apt comparison to compare, say, using a substance in the construction of a building someone else will occupy with what you personally as an adult choose to put into your body. Asbestos is controlled/restricted in how it can be used, etc, but, itās not just flatly illegal.
Asbestos History: Is It Banned in the U.S.?.
No, asbestos is not banned in the U.S. While attempts have been made to ban it over the years, the U.S. continues to import and use asbestos. Nearly 114 metric tons of asbestos were imported in the first three months of 2022, according to the United States International Trade Commission, exceeding the 100 metric tons imported in all of 2021. Although imports continue, asbestos has not been mined in the U.S. since 2002.
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Is every single source of information available in the world on this well researched topic wrong? And if soā¦how would we know?
Have you worked in a prison? I have. EVERY one of them in jail deserves to be there. They do multiple crimes before getting caught and worse do multiple more crimes before they get sent to prison. Let me call the waaahbulance for all those poor innocent children that are merely misunderstood. Get off your soapbox. Youāre talking to the wrong person about ppl in jail.
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I have no idea who Harold Fish is but ask the one question did the police force that arrested and charged Harold Fish admit they made a mistake or was it pure conjecture that he was innocent? People will contend theyāre innocent regardless of the amount of evidence against them.
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If you read the link I provided, it will answer your questions.
I am providing links to so many things in this thread because I have the facts, data, and evidence to support what I am saying. Itās in the link 
He was convicted of murder and is in fact innocent and was later found to be innocent, he acted in legit necssary justified self defenseā¦but if we put murder convictions to deathā¦heād be dead.
As a concealed carrier his is a case worth knowing about
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Innocent people donāt deserve to be in jail.
People in jail are determined innocent and let out all the time.
Check Harold Fish for one such example (of many)
Are you aware that people get put in prison for concealed carry? The thing that if they did it in a different state, would be 100% legal? But because they did it in the wrong state, they are in prison?
You support peaceful citizens who have a gun in the wrong state being in prison?
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Nathan57, you seem to be making a case saying we do not have a civil society.
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Wellā¦this was my first post.
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