Last week I called a friend of mine that I hadn’t spoken to in a few months. As we were speaking he said have you heard any good rumors about me lately. I said not yet but what did you do??
He said another dance dad from his daughters dance studio asked him if he wanted to go golfing on Saturday. He said yes of course. Because we are still under ridiculous covid regulations, only one person is allowed in a golf cart. So my friend and 3 others were trying to play golf. They are not very good but how many of us are. Around the 6th hole one of the guys drove a ball into ay house. The ball hit the outside wall but did not break anything. The other 3 hit their shots and all took off in separate carts to go for the second shot. One of the guys hit near the house that the first person hit. He was also in the rough and was looking for the ball. At that time a man came out of the house. He picked up a ball and threw it at golfer that was looking for his ball. The ball almost hit the golfers head. At that point the golfer walked to the fence line and the two began screaming at each other. My friend and the other two heard the confrontation and headed to their friends aid. The confrontation became more agitated and the person from the home began to dare the golfer to jump the fence because he would put a hole in his head if he did. Golfer #2 began to comment and chirp at the guy. He kept commenting on the situation. At this time the girlfriend of the guy that came out of the home, came out and started screaming at him. She said this is not even your house why are you acting this way. Apparently he lived across the street and this was his friends house. With the interruption of the girlfriend, the situation calmed down. My friend and the other 3 golfers finished the hole. As they headed to the next hole, the cart path goes between the houses. The first person to go was the golfer that was chirping at the guy at the house. As my friend rounded the corner, he saw the first golfer stopped on the path. In front of him was the guy from the house. The golfer was trying to calm everything down. By this time, homeowners had heard the confrontation and began coming out of their homes to see what was going on. At that time someone noticed that the man had a gun and began screaming gun, he has a gun. My friend and the other two jumped out of their carts and tried to hide behind them. The man then pulled the trigger and shot the golfer. The bullet went through his hand and into his stomach. After the shot, the man turned and just started walking to his house. They were incredibly lucky that this man only shot one person. When the police showed up they went to the mans house and found him dead from a self inflicted bullet wound. The golfer was rushed to the hospital and was able to make a full recovery after surgery.
I told my friend you need to get a CCW. He said he had one but because he was golfing he knew he would probably have a beer or two and did not want the gun near him. I said well that is just damn lucky the guy didn’t try to take out all 4 of them and there is no way in hell I will go anywhere with out taking my pistol with me. I get the beer but I would be willing to take my chances in court that I was defending myself or my friends. Alive to argue is far better than dead and having a gun in my truck. He then said there is no way I would have taken the shot anyway. There were to many houses and I would be afraid of shooting the guy and having the bullet go through him and hit someone else. Or worse I miss and still hit someone else. So for that reason He would not have taken the shot.
I told him I get it but once again, if someone is trying to kill me I am going to defend myself.
What would you do in this situation? Would you carry the CCW with you even though you might have a drink. Would you be wiling to protect yourself in this situation? If he actually did shoot the guy pointing the gun at his friend would he be in danger of legal action against him because he was not personally in danger at that moment? What would happen if he did shoot and the bullet hit another bystander? What do you do in this situation?
I carry while I play and not drink. I can wait for that beer until I’m done. It’s illegal to consume alcohol while carrying in my state. As far as shooting to defend the friend it depends in the laws of the state but in my state and many others you are ok defending another person.
Defense trumps alcohol in my world, but ironically I think this worked out well…glad the golfer is okay, and not having to draw saved a lot of hassle…
Kind of reminds me of buying a house next to a dairy farm and complaining about cows.
This may get complicated. You are certainly not supposed to just die by some criminal’s hand if you had a drink. However, because of alcohol, it won’t be treated as stand-your-ground situation, and in some states, you will have a duty to retreat regardless. So, don’t make things complicated, if you are armed, don’t drink.
Yes, regardless of the reason, risk of civil and criminal prosecution.
I think he would be criminally prosecuted and facing civil suit as well. This is regardless of alcohol, but alcohol makes things much worse.
This here, is not a good way to claim self-defense. Adjuvating the situation is taunting and egging on the aggravated home owners friend and this would not meet the requirements for a good clean and clear self-defense case. If you try to de-escalate the situation and not “poke the grumpy guy” you would meet the requirements for self-defense. Now, if you had no involvement in said situation and you were a standby witness to the things that happened and when he had the gun then you have the right to defend your friends as well as yourself because you were in danger too!
I agree. Golfer #2 continued to escalate the situation and failed to maintain his status of an “innocent person”. He and other members of the golfing party could also have been found to fail the rule requiring them to use a reasonable route of escape. They didn’t pull the trigger, but their actions had they done so, could have lead to a conviction.
Fairways are long and wide and golf carts, even the slowest ones could suffice to move out of the confrontation and on to better things. Bravado, some alcohol and testosterone mixed in with pride ruined an otherwise nice day of golf and ended another person’s life.
It all started with words. It ended in tragedy that was truly preventable.
Permit holders are held to a higher standard. If we cannot meet that standard in society, it might be time to put the gun down.
The friend in the story doesn’t need to “get a CCW”. He needs some new friends in my opinion.
Once they walked away and finished the hole the original situation was over. The neighbor reengaged the group after the initial incident was over. So self defense would have been completely justified in this situation. Still not a good idea to get involved in verbal altercations with the locals as it would have made for more of a legal mess had they defended themselves.
Alcohol had no play in this situation except that zero alcohol tolerance anti gun laws forced the victim to be unarmed.
I don’t want to make light of mental health issues but I sure wish these disturbed people who feel the need to shoot others before putting a bullet in their own heads would do things the other way around!
golf range should have net/fence to stop balls from hitting any houses to begin with.
the home owner in the impact area should have resolved the problem
Of balls hitting the house from day one.
the golfers had two choices.
A - retreat & call the fuzz ( re- assault )
B- apologized to homeowner and retreat.
PS: did this happen in a red flag state
This is definitely a sad situation and you always hate hearing that something small like this leads to shots being fired. The person who was shot, was not threatening any lives, so the homeowner using a firearm obviously was not justified.
This is also a story that makes me think about the most important thing that the USCCA teaches, which is avoidance. If it was me in this situation, I would have apologized and then walked away. Yelling back at the homeowner just made things worse than they already are and escalated the situation. I cannot stress enough how important it is to just take a breath and walk away because even when you don’t think something like this would. happen, you never know what someone else may do.
