Right, but there is also momentum. Mace didnt need to penetrate knight’s armor. A .45 with same energy as a 9mm will be slower, yet have more momentum
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Just get a 10mm for greater velocity and bullet weight 
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Perhaps we’re getting a bit deep into physics here but, for a 220 grain .45 and 135 grain 9mm to deliver the same energy, the .45 would have to travel significantly slower than the 9mm. A 135 grain 9mm at 1100ftps delivers about 370 foot pounds and has a momentum of 2.9kg m/s. A 220 grain .45 at 975ftps delivers about 465 foot pounds and has a momentum of 4.2kg m/s. Now, to have that 220 grain .45 have the same energy as the 9mm we’d have to slow it down to about 870ftps. The momentum is now 3.7kg m/s. Still a bit more than the 9mm, for sure. My point being that energy and momentum are not the same. Be that as it may, while the .45 clearly delivers more energy than your typical 9mm round, in my opinion (and it’s mine alone) with modern bullet designs the 9mm and .45 are so close in terms of wound channel characteristics that there are too many other benefits that, again in my opinion, favor the 9mm for me to select it over the .45 as an EDC weapon.
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it’s truly a matter of choice for each person. i dont know how many here have been shot at i do know that it can rattle you. make your training as real as you can your life depends on your skills .
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You got that right!
A buddy of mine that served in Vietnam always said “You’ll never feel more wide awake than when bullets are whizzing past you”
I’ve fortuately only had that experience once. I was a teenager at the time and I still remember it like it was yesterday. I can testify good cover, in my case a large tree trunk, can save your life.
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Edit: I replied before seeing how many replies there already were. Was out last weke. Shamrock wins lol
At the core of his desperate firefight was a murderous attacker who simply would not go down, even though he was shot 14 times with .45-cal. ammunition – six of those hits in supposedly fatal locations.
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I prefer .45, but don’t feel 9mm is junk. That said, a big factor for what duty pistols are issued to officers is cost. 9 is cheaper than .45. No if and or buts, it just is.
Now, where I believe.45 to be superior is less to do with ballistics, and more to do with state regulations. If a person is limited to 10 rounds, like they are in several places, the 45 becomes a very viable option.
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No doubt this is a huge factor but, the fact that ballistically they are so similar with today’s ammo in mind, it actually makes sense to switch for that reason alone.
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I’m an old pharte (late sixties) who has been shooting .45 for over 4 decades. I love the round.
But the debate is over and 9mm won. There simply is no compelling argument to use the .45 over 9mm with modern defensive rounds.
When Larry Vickers (Delta Force veteran and 19ll pistol smith and shooting instructor), Bill Wilson and Ken Hackathorn, both died in the wool .45 guys, Mike Seeklander, Mas Ayoob, and the list goes on … I think it seems kind of silly to keep arguing in favor of the .45. Esp when you can get outstanding 2011 pistols for the 9mm like the Wilson EDC X9 or SFX9.
YMMV, you do what you want, but I’m a 40-year competitive shooter, and reloader, who happens to own a very expensive .45 ACP carry rig, which I still love. But I gave it up a few years ago. As Larry lays out here, the 9mm won the caliber wars, walking away. And as a guy who did all his active duty days (I think) prior to the adoption of the Beretta, you cannot make the argument he (or any of the rest of that list) is biased.
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Maybe I missed something on the info u provided.
Look at point 3 and 5 (.)
3. Said that guns chambered in a 9m, which would be a rifle that holds a higher velocity release than a 9m pistol. We are comparing actual 9 vs 45 handgunsright.
5. States those hit with higher calibers goes down, i believe so, oh well right.
Most people use a 9mm as the go to pistol, first purchase thought, even gun store advice. Then they wind up buying higher cal if they began to get into guns. Im not talking about you gun fanatics or collectors out there.
YES, a 9mm will put the bad guy down and out. Me, i dont want to go through 10-15 rounds to shoot the bad guy, the dog, innocent neighbor next door and my whole wall up. 2-3 shots with a higher cal is far more better vs 10-15 9mm, if you have an idea on how to handle yourself with a gun. Still either will do.
Be safe.
Not really
If the concern is shooting 10-15 rounds and hitting the threat, the dog, an innocent neighbor next door, and your whole wall…that’s not from using 9mm that’s from using ‘too much’ caliber (recoil) or simply not being trained/practiced enough, regardless of what you’re using.
There is no substantial difference in terminal effectiveness on the attacker between 9 and 45 using modern quality JHP ammunition.
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I wouldn’t go this route…
2 - 3 shots with higher caliber does exactly the same as 2 - 3 shots of 9 mm if you have an idea how to properly shoot with a gun.
If you spray & pray … 45 will do more damage and harm to innocent neighbor next door and my whole wall…
Remember… it’s not about bigger boy in your hand… it’s more about training (physical and mental) what, how and when to shoot.
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Agree that spray and pray will be dangerous and ineffective whether you are using a .45 or a 9. There is some argument though for .45 being ever so slightly safer for spraying and praying due to its slower velocity and larger surface area it tends to penetrate through barriers very slightly less effectively than 9mm.
Though for most people the added recoil from a .45 is going to make them slightly more likely (or noticeably more likely if they don’t train enough) to miss on follow up shots and potentially hit something they don’t want to. And any slight benefits .45 has over 9mm are nowhere near enough to just take one shot with it and assume the threat will instantly drop from the single all mighty .45 bullet. With all handgun caliber bullets multiple shots are very likely to be needed to stop a determined threat.
In a self defense situation I would take the same number of shots with my .45 as I would with my 9. Though it would take me a little bit longer to get those shots off with the .45.
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exactly this 
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I did say that either will DO if you know how to shoot. Either way, a bullet is a bullet. Bad guys have felt the sting of much smaller calibers and went down…fact, and I won’t argue that.
But think about this, why did the military choose the 45 first off, over 9mm. It’s a more powerful caliber. It just IS. 9’ s have less recoil so it’s easier to get back on spot, right. But, if you’re good then even that wont make as much a difference. Just me…
If you cant shoot then you could have a missle launcher and still miss a barn from 10 feet…LoL now.
9mm IS a good choice for self defense…yes-okaaay.
But, it is not as powerful as the 45 cal (0-10 yard comp) about your round about gun fight distance. Either one the bad guy will feel the sting, fact.
Oh, yes, shot placement is very important even with a bazook, L0L nooow. 9 or 45 you are GOOD to go as long as you learn how to aim and shoot, bottom line for all. If you think Im wrong, oh well, some may tell you that ICE is not wet but water is. Both are. It’s about the application and training…politics, oh boy.
Be safe all.
I don’t know, why did the military choose .45 when it first did so?
Think about this, why does the military now generally choose, in fact the majority of military and police globally, choose 9mm?
And, why does decades-ago round nose FMJ ball ammo only, military sidearm (military does very little with sidearms) selection matter to current modern day modern JHP ammo concealed carry selection? I’d say the by far and away nearest profession comparison is LE, and they almost universally use 9mm. Those that don’t tend to use .40. VERY LITTLE .45 out there
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Not sure how many know this, but when the .45 was adopted by the military, it was (in part) because there was a huge difference in the effectiveness of the 9mm. The original 9mm rounds were significantly weaker than the current standards for 9mm are — if I remember correctly, they were less powerful than the current .380s. Imagine trying to penetrate a thick trench coat, and possibly a leather vest underneath, with a .380. It’s not happening. Thus the adoption of the .45, because it was powerful enough to actually stop the threat.
Fast forward a century. The 9mm rounds today are engineered to be much more powerful and effective than they used to be, to the point that they can stop the vast majority of threats out there today.
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To be honest… nobody here is wrong…
As I stated on my first post - you can be great and effective with any caliber you are feel good at.
Many members mentioned already, that “.45ACP is not a king of calibers” or “holy caliber” anymore. Yes… it was a good options last Century (that’s why military chose it over other caliber)… but these days comfort, accuracy, good feeling and effectiveness - these are the factors that make us choose other calibers. In this case - 9mm.
For some shooters .45ACP is the only choice. I’m ok with it. For others - 9mm and nothing else. Is it bad? Not at all.
The most important is - you must know what you can do with tool you are carrying.
Definitely carrying .45 because it requires less rounds than 9mm isn’t correct thinking.
People started requesting all .45ACP platforms to be manufactured in 9mm long time ago… and it wasn’t requested without reason.
So thinking about 9mm vs 45ACP (like the thread’s topic says) you should consider few factors:
- cost
- shootability (meaning, what you can handle and shoot accurately)
- effectiveness
Combing all 3 together gives the answer what is better. But this answer will be different for each of us. It is very subjective and personal.
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Those 3 factors are important, but…let’s not forget to bullet point capacity.
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And there you have it…
So lets all put this issue to rest. The 9mm is good, or a 45cal is also very nice!
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