The steps on my USCCA card are:
I supposed “hire an attorney” is implied in #3, but that’s last on the list. Call USCCA if you have to act in self-defense, that’s what they do. Calling the response team isn’t the same as hiring an attorney.
Good point.
I have not had this issue arise with USCCA or the insurer, Universal Fire and Casualty Insurance Company. But I have had extensive experience with other casualty insurers (Auto, home owners/tenant/commercial).
Here’s my comments on the prior thread.
My experience is that it is rare for insurers to attempt recovery from their policyholders. It just looks really bad for business. The only time I saw a company pursue recovery is when a guy blew up his house. The claim was paid to the wife and the insurer sued the guy to reimburse them.
@tinknocker I’m going to guess you were implying in self-defense when you said:
@Ouade5 has the order correct, as soon as you can/once you are safe first call the police then call the USCCA.
As soon as you call the USCCA Critical Response team (877-677-1919) after a self-defense incident, they will work on getting a USCCA Network attorney in contact with you ASAP.
IF/As your self-defense case moves forward, you can continue to work with that attorney (if their schedule allows) or you can work with any other attorney of your choosing.
So basically if you’re defending yourself and the law uses 1 of a 100 ways to apply a charge against you then USCCA will stick you with a recovery bill.
Scenario: You set your home alarm & go to sleep. The state that I live in has the Stand your ground, and Defend your castle doctrine.
Someone breaks in disregarding the alarm sounding & decides to do a fast act.
A gun battle ensues. One problem: There are children in the home.
Defending yourself & your family can backfire because of things like “child endangerment laws / clauses”, or some cop that thinks you’re obligated to retreat when the law says you don’t have to, or the criminals family wanting to pursue a civil suit for killing the scumbag, or the idea that somehow an investigation deems “There were other options and negligence led to an active defense shooting / or unsafe defensive practices…
See where this is going? If you defend even in the 100% legally lawful right, if one charge against you being on defense sticks you’re stuck with the bill !
I don’t expect USCCA to cover criminal behavior at all, but purely & strictly Defensive acts…, Yes… I expect the coverage I’m paying for without strings attached !
What this is basically saying is : “ We will cover you providing you’re not charged with anything at all.”
This has me concerned & will be seriously considering this matter / options. Seeing this today has my confidence level feeling compromised. I am wondering if this is worth it now?
There’s an old adage “ Don’t do me any favors”, is what comes to mind.
You basically have to be completely cleared of any responsibility to not be stuck with the legal fees. Wow…!, that’s all I can say is Wow!
That is not at all what USCCA has said in any of the threads devoted to this kind of topic. Don’t put words in another’s mouth (or…keyboard).
More importantly, there are many cases where they have defended members and not a single example of where the insurer has attempted to recoup costs vs a member.
yea…what?
So, does this mean that if I pay for something I may or may not get something from it if I am found negligent? That sounds like Insurance stuff! What if, I had Insurance and followed the law, followed my training, escape, and evading as a first choice.
What if I did not have Insurance? What if I did not have a lawyer? What if I didn’t have any training?
I am an USCCA instructor in Washington State. I train people on Gun safety, self-defense, and on,… There are three places I stress over and over and that is,… Gun safety, Self defense, situational awareness. All three are equally important to each other. You have to know the condition of your gun as well as the conditions around you. You have to know what is going on around you to react to possible threats and avoid them.
Now, you are wondering where I am going on this? In Washington State, there is no Coverage from the USCCA. That is not on them! It is our state. If the practice of safety and awareness is kept sharp I will never have to worry about it but, if it does happen, I should be trained enough to know what I did was proper and what I did is something I had to do.
So, with that, Watch your six and train. Be safe. Have a great day!
@Aaron40 I edited your post to remove the spaces at the beginning of a few sentences as it was causing a weird text/font/cut off issue.
FYI for everyone - if you add spaces at the beginning of a paragraph it can make the formatting weird for that paragraph. It will look like:
where the words are in a different font, have a grey background and are cut off depending on how many characters your screen displays.
^^^ That says: where the words are in a different font, have a grey background and are cut off depending on how many characters your screen displays.
We encourage everyone to review the USCCA Membership Agreement and the Self-Defense Liability Policy.
It is true that the Self-Defense Liability Policy issued to and held by the USCCA includes a condition allowing for Recovery and Recoupment. It also specifically excludes coverage for criminal acts. The recovery and recoupment provision gives the insurance company the ability to recoup amounts paid in the event an insured was convicted of a criminal act.
Yes, I did indeed mean self defense. So if the attorney in such a case has to interact with law enforcement or say the attorney for the person who was sprayed because they felt it was unjustified for me to defend myself, and subsequently the case was dropped because the awesome uscca lawyer made them se the light…who pays?
Thanks @mikebky, I’m sure it’s a pain in the butt answering all these questions! Most folks don’t have any idea how this stuff is going to work. Let’s all hope that we never have to find out 
It is important to note that the terms of the insurance policy are part of the policy issued to USCCA by Universal Fire & Casualty Ins. Co. The good news is that coverage is now backed by a A rated (AM Best) insurer. The bad news is that the policy still includes some standard ISO provisions, including recoupment.
What I can tell you is that when you need the coverage, it will be there, unlike many other providers that provide reimbursement.
Off the wall question.
Happy with my USCCA coverage. I like the peace of mind of having their support.
On the topic of the maximum amount of benefits allowable for “an event”, if there is a “max or cap” on the USCCA legal coverage. Does anyone know if one were to purchase a second self-defense insurance, can one have two at the same time, and how would that even work, which would be first to cover? I noticed that a different self-defense insurance firm had an unlimited benefit, without any max cap.
Thanks.
It makes total sense to me that USCCA needed an across-the-board update to the insurance policy verbiage. Two main reasons →
All the blah blah other verbiage serves to clarify the separation of Defensive coverage (potentially criminal) and Claims overage (civil / damages), and that if you’re found criminally guilty, they’re entitled to recompense for all. Also, the timeliness requirements of notifying them in the event of any legal actions. Also, of course a clause covering prohibitions by applicable (unique State) law.
The question that this all boils down to, then, as I see it, is basically - how much are we on the dollar hook in the event of anything other than an “innocent” verdict? Well, as (a non-attorney, but someone who has watched a lot of Law & Order on TV, it seems to me that if convicted on a charge of concealed carrying, maybe they pay for that. Otherwise, if criminally convicted (on a per charge basis), the insurance company is entitled to recompense. →
" D. “Conviction” means the entry by a trial court of an adjudication, judgment, order or ruling finding a party guilty of a crime whether following a plea of nolo contendere, a plea of guilty, a criminal trial, a judicial determination, or any other similar mechanism or procedure.
However, this does not include the insured’s “conviction” for a conceal carry or similar law. "
So … is your life going to be hell if you’re involved in a lawful shoot? Almost certainly (assuming you survive). If you have no legal representation lined up and don’t keep your mouth shut, are you going to jail for a very long time? In many cases, probably yes. If you have coverage via USCCA, and you’re totally innocent except for whatever tricks an over-zealous prosecutor is likely to pull, would your life be ruined by a plea-bargained misdemeanor, $200 fine, and $100,000 legal fees? (assuming USCCA insurer pressed its claim for recoupment or was forced to by State law) - well, yes that would suck, but at least you’re not worried about dropping the soap, and how the rest of your family is carrying on without you.
This has been kind of the white 
for some of us. I have seen exactly 2 instances. 1 was pretty famous so I can see that the other got taken down years ago. Could you point out those stories.
Remember, the recovery and recoupment provision gives the insurance company the ability to recoup amounts paid in the event an insured was convicted of a criminal act. If the case is dropped, you haven’t been convicted of a criminal act.
We want to be here for our members with education, training, and their legal defense after they’ve had to physically defend themselves, @tinknocker. We pray no one has to physically defend themselves because we want everyone to be safe, but we know that bad things happen far too often.
If a situation is initially presented as self-defense and turns out to be proven first-degree murder, the insurance company should be able to recoup their payments.
Yes, you can have two different companies. As every situation is different, the companies work it out amongst themselves on different expenses.
A similar example is if you have two health insurances - your spouse has you on theirs and you have your own through your employer. The two companies work out who is primary (yours is usually primary for you in this type of situation). This is not insurance advice by any means, just a very high level example. 
You can read about four different examples here, @Zavier_D https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/about/testimonials/
Please remember, our members who have had to legally defend their physical self-defense actions have just been through one of the most traumatic times of their lives. We do not make anyone who has had to use their USCCA benefits share their story. Some want to let others know what happened, and some do not want any more attention drawn to themselves or their families.
Sometimes you just need to go with it. Thanks for more clarification. Not really needed for most of us but appreciated none-the-less.