Ours weren’t free 
My kids class was $350 each! And the tests were at least $35 at the DMV if I’m remembering right.
Now it’s been said that people mature at different rates - and I totally agree with that. It’s also been said (in numerous jokes I’ve seen) that men never mature past the age of 12. Maybe that’s just their humor never matures past the age of 12? 
Well, it has been 25 years since I was in Drivers Ed. And yes, although my body says 41, my maturity level inverts (14) those numbers upon occasion. 
My body is a temple, ancient and crumbling, probably haunted or cursed! But I still tell my kids, here, pull my finger.
Like I said, 12 years old… 
Actually we can as the constitution allows us to.
Once again, the military doesn’t simply hand out weapons and ammunition to everyone and let them go about their daily business armed and ready.
You will never as a soldier, sailor, guardsman or Marine have unfettered access to firearms and ammunition, it will always be under very strict rules and supervision so equating our duty in the service to civilian carry is an apples and anvils comparison.
We also now know from numerous neuro psychiatric studies that the brain isn’t fully developed until somewhere between 25-30 and as such we don’t have a full understanding of consequences and responsibility until that point is reached.
We can’t mandate a minimum age for having children unfortunately although it would be nice if we could.
In this era even consent laws are deemed often as sexist and patriarchal attempts to control women.
I’d add to that a parenting test before your first born arrives but we can’t mandate that either. That’s what grandparents are for HA!
@WildRose, with all due respect, exponentially more people are killed in automobile accidents then with firearms and those under 25 are much more likely to cause an accident, including fatal accidents, but we put a 2000+ pound bullet under the control of a 16 year with the PRIVILEGE to drive but do not allow those who have attained the age of majority in every state in the union to exercise their CONSTITUTIONAL second amendment right.
And let’s be clear, the federal law defining militia includes all males from 17 to 45 whether they served in the armed forces or not. Militia does not equal military!
And yes, our armed forces, especially stateside, control the weapons and ammunition going in and out of the armory and even control whether they can or cannot possess personal firearms. The UCMJ plays a large role in that. But the militia is NOT subject to the UCMJ or the various rules and regulations of our armed forces unless the are in the armed forces.
I say raise it all to 21 or 25, but bring back the “yeoman” requirement to vote.
Federal law only affects the militia when called into active service.
Without a doubt you are correct on drivers licenses which is why in most other developed nations it is much more difficult to get a license and you can’t do so at 16. Further if people under 21 started frequently using vehicles as weapons you can bet that the age to drive would quickly be raised in every state individually if not by federal mandate. Something like 95% or more of car/vehicle related deaths are due to accidents, not to malicious acts.
Our founders were men of science and education and I strongly suspect if they knew what we know today about neuro psychology and psychiatry they’d agree with upping the age of majority.
Keep in mind that in their day you could not vote until you were 21. We lowered the voting age in reaction to the unrest over Vietnam, not because it made any sense from a practical or scientific standpoint.
“To keep and bear arms”. If you can legally own, posses, and carry a long gun your rights are not infringed.
If you can upon reaching legal age own, possess, and carry a handgun openly your rights are not infringed by any reasonable reading and understanding of the Amendment and it’s history.
I can see your points, but simply don’t agree with them.
I’d be a big fan of restricting it to property owners and those with a net positive tax liability for the four years prior to a federal election and 2 years prior to a state or local election.
We’re probably getting far enough off into politics here as to make the mod’s uncomfortable so we better stick to the topic at hand.
To be clear, are you saying that if I’m free to own a rifle, but restricted from owning a handgun, that my rights have NOT been infringed?
Because if that’s what you’re saying, I definitely don’t agree. Infringed is infringed. Just because my rights haven’t been entirely obliterated doesn’t mean they haven’t been infringed.
I’m inclding both, probably should have been more clear.
What were the “arms” of a common infantryman of the day? Long gun, pistol, carbine, handgun, knives, dirks, daggers, swords etc and all of the gear necessary to sustain them in the field.
The whole point of the 2nd is that we be familiar with the use of all of these tools and have them ready such that when necessary we can all pick them up and be ready to do battle.
We also have to understand that there were different types of militia at the time and that federal law only applies to the formal militia when it is called into active federal service. The informal militia is all of us capable of acting in our own defense, defense of our homes, towns/cities, states and the nation if necessary.
Many people haven’t read enough of the history of the 2nd to really understand those points so I always encourage everyone to really dig into it.
Scalia’s decision in the Heller case is a great starting point and you can review the sources referenced therein and they will of course lead you to even more.
Many parents do indeed expect to much from their children, specifically when those children have spent their first 15 or so years being cocooned in a life free of hurts, disappointments, obstacles, responsibilities, consequences, undeserved rewards, and with no meaningful preparation for life. To then expect a sudden blossoming of ‘common sense’ and maturity simply because a child has attained a particular milestone of years is beyond ridiculous. Life is a seriously dangerous, unfair, and arbitrary place that bears no special love or compassion for any individual.
To prepare a child for some level of success in real life you must allow them, in a controlled way, to experience some of the potholes and sharp edges and capricious denials that adult life inevitably entails. To protect a child from all that by covering the world in bubble wrap so that they never feel any hurts or disappointments does not give them a foundation for adult life. It produces stupid, self-centered, entitled superannuated toddlers who fling themselves into a floor rolling, heel kicking, fist pounding, screeching, tear streaked tantrum every time life (or anyone) doesn’t give them what they want, when they want, because they want it. Exposure strengthens and improves character; insulation weakens and erodes it.
So, yes, many parents expect far too much from their children if they expect the child to raise themselves and become fully realized adults all in a moment as the clock ticks over midnight on their special birthday.
Regards.
I don’t disagree with this at all. I was recently at a funeral, where a family member didn’t bring her 15 year old child, because the young lady “doesn’t handle these things well.” I started teaching my kid that stuff when he was 3. The same with other aspects of “real” life. Work hard, get a reward. Be lazy, lose reward. Bad things happen, even when your a “nice” guy.
My mom always used to tell me “Life is not fair” and I told my children the same thing. It’s a hard lesson to learn when people in places of authority (teachers, coaches, parents) try to make things “fair” when you’re a child.
I don’t know about other parents, but this was a very hard thing for me to do - watching my child go through something when I knew it would fail. That is the only way they can learn certain things - and it’s painful as a parent. But to be a good parent, we have to help our children learn.
Absolutely, Dawn. As a parent, my first instinct was to jump in there and help when I saw things going sideways for my child. I had to learn to balance the soothing of my feelings against the value of the lesson my child would learn. Within reason, of course. I made sure to step in before it reached the point of truly serious trauma.
Regards.
It isn’t just as easy as saying if you can die for your country you should be able to carry concealed. That 18 year old soldier, marine, sailor, or airman cannot drink alcohol legally while serving their country. The same argument can be applied there as well then but I digress.
Do I believe that a 18 year old should be able to protect and defend themselves? Yes. Do I believe that they should be able to conceal carry? I cannot say for sure. What I can say is at 18 I am not 100% positive that I was responsible enough to. Yes, I knew the fundamental rules of firearm safety back then because of being around firearms all my life. That still doesn’t mean that I (at the time) or any other 18 year is that responsible. Having them sit through an 8 hour class and shoot 30 rounds into a target far enough away that you can hit it with a rock isn’t enough to apply for a permit… Heck, I don’t think it is enough for someone 21 years older or older. At least here in NC as long as you can stay awake for 8 hours and halfway shoot you will pass the class and get your certificate to apply for the permit.
With all of that said I am not totally against lowering the age to 18 to allow for concealed carry “with a permit” ( I say this because the article said without). However I feel that they need additional training before being allowed to carry concealed. I also feel that anyone regardless of age that has their permit should have additional training.
Totally agree, as long as we keep it “should” and not “must”.
I think we should be way more diligent, as a society, in preparing children to be able to handle the realities and responsibilities of being an adult. But I’m not willing to let my rights, or the rights of any legal adult, be infringed at the direction of people who think they know what’s good for us better than we do.
I don’t think there’s any answer in here that makes all 18 year olds mature, or all carriers safe. There is no way to legislate making the decision based on an evaluation of maturity without giving someone subjective control over other people’s rights. That subjective control will always be abused.
The other option is to draw a line where adult responsibly begins, and then apply ourselves to helping people be ready when they reach that line.
That doesn’t happen through legislation, it happen in families and communities and peer groups, and schools, and in putting emphasis an the values that matter to becoming a fully functioning adult.
I have no idea how we fix that part, in the larger sense. All I can do is influence the part of it I can touch.
What I do think is an essential wrong is to turn young people out into the world, tell them they are legally responsible for their own lives, that they can vote, marry, enlist in the armed services and risk their lives, be master of their own finances and behavior, and be held accountable for their mistakes, and not give them the means to protect and preserve the single most valuable thing they have - their own lives.
@Zee I totally agree on all parts. The bad thing is I don’t think there is an overall best solution. Sometimes we just have to let our kids make mistakes and learn from then all the while hoping you did your best to prepare them.