You also need to look at section 9.31 of Texas law.
(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other’s use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor’s belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor’s occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor’s habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
( C) was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;
(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.
I thought I’d offer my 2 cents as well. We, as concealed carriers, chose to accept the responsibility to carry a tool we can use to help protect and defend our lives and the lives of those we love. This decision should never be taken lightly as we hold the means to end a person(s) life. Most of us are not sworn officers or deputies and are not extensions of the law, we’re working within the law to further ensure our own safety. Therefore, it is not our duty to seek justice or impose justice on anyone, only seek to stay alive and safe so that those law enforcement officers can arrive and handle the situation.
So with that said, in my honest opinion, were any of us in a similar situation, 2 things would stand out.
if we are driving and a mob of people blocks our vehicle, we should call police and prepare for the worst meaning to drive through them if they begin beating on the vehicle as it indicates they intend harm on you or your passengers. Any rational person under those circumstances would fear for their safety and be scared. Thus, once people show aggression, flooring it and running through them would be your effort to flee from harm and reasonably justifiable.
if they open your door, break a window, or try to get to you, any reasonably prudent person would be scared for their life and their passengers and we choose to carry a tool to help us stay alive long enough till officers of the law can arrive and handle the situation.
Now, you can argue back and forth about what we would do all day, but until it actually happens, under THOSE exact circumstances, if you are in fear for your life or your passenger’s lives, then taking action seems reasonably prudent to stay safe and alive. If that means that some otherwise idiot person who chose to threaten and potentially hurt you is shot or killed, it is the responsibility you accept when you choose to carry and the reason you choose to carry…to protect your life and the lives of the people you love. I’m sure your every action will be scrutinized by anti-gunners and pro-gunners but at the end of the day, if you fear for your life, and you are facing a mob who is demonstrating hostility…you have to choose to live or not and face or deal with the repercussions whether legal or emotional.
Personally, I hope none of us ever are in this situation, but if I am, I’d first drive through them and if I can’t, I’d certainly not hesitate to protect myself and shoot the first person who attempts to make their way into my car which will likely send the rest running like the idiots they are. Sadly, when there are no consequences, people push the limits and keep going further till someone stops them.
Agreed, if this continues, that will be the case eventually. I’m all for peaceful protest to raise awareness with thoughtful voting to follow and effect change, but this crud happening now should be put down harshly. If the anarchists want a war, they should get it. Just like in most things, actions have consequences.
I’m not an attorney but I see an attempted extraction from a car as an assault and kidnap. In a castle doctine state, I believe that qualifies the use of deadly force to repel the assault (and subsequent kidnap) Other opinions?
Ross8 @Dawn
Unfortunately, we can call 911, as we’ve been taught since the rotary phone arrived on scene, but NO ONE is coming anymore! (something right out of a movie) So, you can call till the cows come home and the cows are sure to arrive quicker than the defunded police. I don’t blame the police for not showing up! The bad actors have changed things alright! They have given us the ultimate power to protect ourselves! Without law enforcement, these supreme bad actors run the risk, a much higher risk, of meeting my semi auto 185 gr hollow point .45 acp traveling at 1000 feet per second at the muzzle, in person. Can you Spell DISPERSE?
Be careful what you wish for. The future is a well armed society, it’s now up to you, the bad actor, if it’s a polite society!
While I don’t disagree with you, calling 911 shows that you are at least trying to do the right thing and be both legal and responsible. While cops may not come, it will show a record that you called in for help under duress and while no police arrived in time you feared for your life and did what you had to in order to ensure your own safety. Remember, while acts of self defense are exactly that…public perception is something different as we all can see. So, in my humble opinion, it’s always best to take every precaution even, futile ones, to protect yourself and your family. Be smarter than the idiots and C.Y.A.!
Stop WHAT EXCTLY? Pardon me for repeating myself, but the mobs don’t spontaneously organize themselves. It takes leadership structure and great deal of money to create unrest like we are experiencing. Even if urban communities push back against the mobs, there will be no let up, until you disconnect the remote control, or cut off fuel ($$$). Neither is the task for regular folks, but exactly why we have the FBI. Next level question –why is the FBI not doing anything, what are they trying to achieve by inaction?
As mentioned before first and foremost avoid the area, this is becoming more difficult as some cities are limiting ways in and out of the city (Chicago).
Situational awareness will become paramount, leave space to maneuver, don’t do anything to antagonize the crowd. If time allows calling 911 could be helpful if not for getting help at a minimum its a recording of events if it does go sideways.
Now if they are trying to make entry into the vehicle in my opinion it would be reasonable to presume that death or serious bodily harm is imminent. But with it being a crowd I don’t think a firearm is the best option, a miss, ricochet, or round going thru someone into a bystander could hit an unintended person. I believe the best option would be lay on the horn and drive thru it not stopping until well clear of the incident, more than likely making my way towards a police station. It’s not enough to go just a block. Stay in contact with 911 and tell them you’re leaving to a safe place and will go where they direct you.
A firearm would be my absolute last option however I have trained for firing from a vehicle there a quite a few challenges that were unexpected and have since been addressed.
OK, and then what? What about families of field operatives, they live in the same cities we do, not on Elysium orbital station. I don’t believe things are ever simple in such games.
Your methodology is perfect. It’s a double edged sword and completely sensible but I haven’t seen sensibility in over 78 days!
However, when police stations and its 911 call centers are burned to the ground, I can assure you that when I get ripped from my vehicle I’m reaching for my weapons!
While I am still conscious and when the threat has been neutralized! Then and only then will my futile emergency panic button on my phone be pressed. To announce that I am the victim and the bad actors lying around me are / were the aggressors. I will definitely CYA while it’s alive and conscious. Scenes like this are two too many in my lifetime! I will not be a victim under any circumstances.
As has been explained by the videographer, its a war zone, a scene from a third world country. That is not us! They have turned us into warriors and survival is on the menu. I truly appreciate what you said and that works perfectly when we were just humming along, going to work, playing with our kids, bbqing with friends, not feeling like Jesse James when we go for groceries or the mail.
You know, when there were only four homicides a day, not 50-70, when a store was robbed not an entire mile of stores! A mile of stores and people’s livelihoods!
Can you still wake up each morning and believe that we are seeing this level of violence in the United States, the freest land in the world, the place that was paved in gold now drenched in blood!? Ancient history comes to mind!
They changed our world, I was pretty happy before all this! Thanks for letting me get this all off my chest. Tomorrow is another day!
That’s kinda my point, it’s not a game anymore. These are real lives and livelihoods that have been lost, children, our only treasure, have been lost!
If they can’t report what’s going on they have no business reporting! I think we can agree that the plug must be pulled in order to reset and come to the table. Or we can just follow the money as in any crime and cut the head off the source!
With “give up your house” and mobs of arsonists and looters entering residential communities, we may be on unprecedented ground in America. I’d like to hear from legal experts on this.
You’re so right!
Stop what? They just need to take a break, unless there is more going on under the sheets?
With all due respect, have you ever been in a violent riot. The air is electric, it hums, it rages, it’s external adrenaline being pumped in from a single source. I do not believe there are any innocent bystanders in a mob, I am guilty!, there are no unintended bad actors. Mobs act as one unified army, for lack of a better word.
We are home, like every one has stated don’t be there or you become an unintended victim of your own making.
Just from your name, @Sheepdog556, with a child in the back seat and enough mobsters to overturn your vehicle, in that instance you’ve overcome every challenge to setting yourself and loved ones free! We learned these skills, practiced and overcame challenges for this very moment in time.
I’m sure, every time we enter the car we’re thinking, I’m thinking slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
You’re absolutely correct, I wouldn’t hesitate if I had too bring a firearm into the solution. I just wanted to give more food for thought. People attacking cars is becoming a regular occurrence and unfortunately I’ve had to change habits and what items are in my vehicles on the very rare occasion I am in any town.
Police have tear gas
Police have water cannon
Excellent for dispersing rioters
and protecting Federal court houses
So what’s stopping them from being deployed?
What does the Constitution say about peaceful protest?
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
What are the limits to freedom of assembly?
No First Amendment rights are absolute, but the right to gather is the only one that includes the most important “limit” in the actual words of the amendment: “the right of the people peaceably “to assemble” . ”That means law enforcement may break up any gathering that has turned violent or raises a “clear and present …
Since we cannot depend on law enforcement to intercede for us the right of self defense becomes operative!
“Four elements” are required for “self” - “defense” :
(1) an unprovoked attack,
(2) which threatens imminent injury or death, and
(3) an objectively reasonable degree of force, used in response to
( 4) an objectively reasonable fear of injury or death.
If us citizens were to riot it would be terrible to contemplate. I remember a month or more ago a Black protester made the comment “we know what happens when white people riot” this was just before the “Juneteenth” celebration.
What she was referring to was the “Greenwood Riots” on May 31. 1921. If you don’t know about it look it up.
Apparently the Black community remembers.
This is what the left wants, they are cutting their own throats and by not reacting en mass we are feeding them the knife. Just my thoughts.
@Alexander8 On July 9th the DOJ had made 150 arrests and had over 500 investigations in progress:
Our Federal LE have been working overtime to arrest the perpetrators of the riots. I’m sure they are also investigating the organizations that are pulling the strings behind the scenes…
Had that poor guy been armed…he would have been justified on the simple basis of “disparity of force” based on the numbers against him!!! They had already attacked the transgender person he was trying to rescue from them.
Gun or no gun I would have decided “if I gotta take a beat down…I may as well inflict some damage on my perps”.
THAT’S JUST THE WAY IT IS WITH ME!!!
I hope everyone’s taking notice that in these cities allowing this stuff to happen, they’re defunding their police and at the same time they have the greatest restrictions on guns.
