The Political hustle of gun rights one more time?

I was speaking with a series of attorneys last week,while contemplating starting several state and federal lawsuits. The major ones were around constitutional carry, national reciprocity, defense of 2A etc. These wired in attorneys believed that we were heading for constitutional carry(cc), but it left me with a few hum type questions.

  1. “Assault rifles” are still rifles

  2. FBI stats or the FBI combined crime report puts(2016 & 2017) knife deaths anywhere from 3 to 5 times that of “rifle” deaths approx 1500 knife deaths per year,approx 400 rifle deaths.

3)We all know approx 2.5 mill people are saved by guns each year, and approx 40,000 deaths per year are attributed to guns with approx 30,000 of that being suicides.

But the issue is on the rifle part or the assault rifle part. It is obvious that the numbers suggest that this political issue should not be an issue,
Yet it persist.
It is easy political hay,while stripping Americans of their right to defend themselves from criminals,corrupt govt officials orgovernments themselves.

In discussing making these various suits active, a discussion centered around “Prosecutorial Discretion”

You can get taken to jail,but if a prosecutor/s office decides not to prosecute- you go free.

You might want a sherrif to serve a complaint,but if to high powered a person,he will ask his boss,who will ask his boss,who may ask the US Attorney General- who would say no politically

So the question to the community is in our collective opinions what should be done to remove this topic permanently from our sight. While preserving all 2a rights?
All is fair game here,from suing senators and Congress people(1964 sedition subversion act,Rico,discrimination,high crimes,or going local etc)
But before you rant,remember Prosecutorial Discretion. Also consider does the suit require partners. In my discussion to file for constitutional carry,national reciprocity,and 2a support,plus moving this state from a may issue to a shall issue was priced at approx 250,000.

So with all that in mind
What is required to protect our 2A rights and remove the gun issue from our path.

Note,no matter what law is passed,it only affects non criminals or mentally stable folks.

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Not really sure what you’re asking. But here are some thoughts.

I think I’d set prosecutorial discretion aside as it will always exist. I don’t think there’s much reason to spend money on trying to change that.

National constitutional carry would be an outstanding goal. As would the slightly smaller goal of national reciprocity. Getting your home state to constitutional carry is also a worthy goal.

Our experience in MO suggests that a bite-size approach is productive, move the line further in the right direction every year. For me, that suggests that we let the assault rifle thing wait while we work on other fronts… hold the line so we don’t lose more assault rifle ground, but not try to move that one forward until after other goals have been secured.


Only about 9,000 of those “gun deaths” are homicides. Be sure and keep that in mind when considering your arguments.

Further, over 2/3 of those “gun death homicides” are committed with illegally obtained and/or possessed firearms.

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You can’t sue sitting gov’t officials for acts related to their official duties, they are protected by Sovereign Immunity.


Interesting,I am seeing in a national perspective a lot of potential pain if certain people get elected,the fact that their actions are by in large illegal is an issue,the fact that lawful citizens keep getting used and abused is an issue,the fact that some folks here might be able to address the issue but don’t(speaking only of myself) indicates to me ,that I have become to complacent in accepting the abuse. I wouldn’t let someone boldly lie to my face or if I told a truth call me a lier. Yet I am willing to accept that very thing around my rights and their removal.? I would say this should not be. But if that is so,then what solutions should be sought. The Prosecutorial Discretion is where the lawyers go to break or not deal with the law. But I believe that is an issue of how something is presented,optics,and in some cases power . If people can force gun removal on the country be it by regulating ammunition manufacturing, magazine removal,or outright removal of guns the 2A has been broken.

Yes state fights are a smaller bite,but to date the war can be put to bed federally,possibly and then the state issue may become easier to fight. Might not run into the14th ammndmnt,supremacy close issues etc.

The rub is everyday I see and hear absolute lies peddled with no pushback legally,politically, or from the media.
So first 1) Thanks for the input,that is what I am looking for. 2) if not blessed to live in a sane state,the fight is huge.
3)Even something so simple as ranges and range time can be a challenge if the caliber is large.

  1. as an aside last two years the DNC folks brought suit against a range in gerrardstown wV, (National matches are held there) just to get the names of the members. Used noise complaint,even though the range owns most of the county,and laws on the books said noisie could never be brought,waivers were in place. In the end it was all to get the names of the members. Most of whom are highly skilled.

Zee I appreciate the input,as well as anyone else that choose to give input.

Truly Thank You

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Keep in mind that any suit filed in federal court against state officials or states carries as much weight as precedent as any other case.

Even state court cases are cited in federal court decisions frequently.

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Yes I understand the immunity of govt officials,the hiccup or way around that is in the criminal statutes,which is why we went to sedition,Rico high crimes etc.

The intent is to move from the investigation side( what we see Congress do everyday) and go directly to doj criminal. These charges are usually title 18 Chapter 11 202-227, or Hobbs act ortravel act,or Rico,or mail and wire fraud there are some others but these open the door to some of the other areas but it has to be criminal.

In our discussion, it was centered around true sherriffs (which are federal) as opposed to sherriffs with the Dept tag ) which are usually under the State. The issue became even if the sherriff did take the criminal complaint,Prosecutorial Discretion( the phone calls upline) would usually keep anything from happening. Esp where we are in the 4th circut. So we wind up being forced to take a smaller bite,even though the written law is on our side.

The arguments were all subtly constitutional - hence using the sherriff,(ie the reason they are the ones that put people out in the street - ultimately is constitutional authority,and if under the State side it goes to the state federal agreements during the formation of the United States.

But in the end,the view was that to do any of the above would be more difficult than const. carry,national reciprocity,or 2a support, obviously the State side will proceed.

So this leaves getting input,that is to determine, opinions,if anything is missed ,other possibilities etc.

That is the basic background,obviously when doing this it is technically specific,but it all starts somewhere.

As always I appreciate and look forward to your input. Please continue to give it,it is always appreciated and valued.


Thanks, I’ll always shoot it to you as straight as I possibly can.

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As @WildRose stated, you cannot sue federal officials in federal court or state officials in state court for their official acts because they have sovereign immunity.
Additionally, only the executive branch of the government, federal or state, can bring criminal charges against anyone, through various law enforcement agencies or through the appropriate prosecutors’ offices, i.e. US Attorney’s offices, US Attorney General’s office, state Attorneys General offices and other state, county, municipality prosecutor’s offices. Citizen’s can file complaints with these offices, however, the likelihood of a prosecutor charging elected or appointed members of the executive, legislative or judicial branches based upon “public policy” issues is zero to none. That is not truly an issue of prosecutorial discretion but is a political issue which is exactly what the legislative and executive branches are chartered to do.
If there is going to be an attack, it has to be done in the court system. Only by having the states highest courts and/or the United States Supreme Court rule on the issues, will you bring finality to this. If the laws are found to be in violation of either the state or US Constitutions, the only way the legislature or executive branches can do an end around is through a constitutional amendment.

I also agree with @Zee with respect to how to make headway. After 4 or 5 years of trying, Kentucky finally passed a constitutional carry bill that went in to effect the end of June. Just like the left, we need to move forward taking small bites. We became the 16 state to legislate Constitutional carry and there may be one that followed soon after. Similar bills have been introduced in many other states. This elephant has to be eaten 1 bite at a time. And we have to understand that there are some states that will be a losing battle. I would not expect constitutional carry anytime soon in CA, OR, WA, CT, NJ, NY, MA, RI, MD or HI.

As for national reciprocity, without a majority in the house and at least 60 in the Senate, that is dead.


Thanks Mike good stuff. The problem for me, I spend a lot of time in some of those states you wrote off. Ah life just isn’t fair. The other issue is I have lived in other states like Texas in the past and enjoyed life a bit more.

Yes we were going down the US Attorney road,with Criminal charges, but getting them accepted was and is the issue.

The other issue more from a global point is,if you are a nation of laws, but cannot get the violations accepted for punishment,then there is a question out there of who the laws apply to and how we justify that the laws apply to everyone… Especially if the violations are clear.

We are working through all of this at a number of levels including power structure issues.

Thank you for all of the insight.

This is going to be a hard fight,since the impact we are looking for is quicker and harder than what it appears the methodologies are willing to yield.

I will keep all posted as the attorneys and various groups work through this.

We will most likely need help from a region to our south

Thank you

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Just as an aside note the new Devin Nunes(citizen to govt) lawsuit using Rico,to correct certain issues,we are operating in this vein.

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