Federal recently announced the new “30 Super Carry”. I had not heard about it until I saw this article from Ryan Cleckner. I have followed him for a while now so I will admit I may be biased to agree with him because, to me, his opinion holds more weight than others.
I will say that I always love to hear about new products. It’s what capitalism is all about and has led to so many improvements in the self-defense industry. I just don’t like the fact that this is coming out NOW.
As Ryan talks about in his article, we are in the middle of a massive ammo shortage. Even though some ammo is starting to become more readily available, it isn’t anywhere near what it should be. I feel that ammunition manufacturers should be putting all their resources into the ammo we need now (9mm, .380, 5.56, as well as other popular self-defense and hunting rounds). Adding a completely new round to the mix pulls from resources that could be used for ammunition that is needed by the majority.
What do you guys think about the new round, especially during the ammo shortage?
I would like to see a new 30 caliber cartridge developed to fit in existing length handgun magazines. Probably 10mm/45acp magazine size although 9mm/40 length is more popular. I want a shortened 30 carbine basically to fit what’s out there. 30 Luger fits 9mm platforms but it’s fairly weak. 7.62x25 has good power, but it’s only available in old single stack rough military handguns and people complain about the large grip size. 327 Federal is awesome, but again a 6 or 7 shot capacity limitation. Maybe make a rimless 327 and put it in a double stack semi-auto! The 308 bore size is used by Thompson Center for 32s because it is more popular and versatile. I feel like making the 350 legend a 9mm bore size instead of 357 was a mistake but handloaders are running 0.357” jacketed bullets through a 0.356” push through sizer, and having success regardless.
Ruger produced a 5.7x28 handgun with a 20 round magazine. Build us a .308” 20 round double stack handgun that has better ballistics than the century old 30 Luger and heavier bullets than the 5.7 uses please. I’d be happy with a bottleneck cartridge like the 7.62x25 or a new one based off the longer 9x29 win mag case or the 9x25 Dillon case necked down to 308. I love the 110 grain Speer jhp varmint bullet! Start with it and the already available 30 carbine bullets. Of course it would be great if it was a companion to a pistol caliber carbine on the modern sporting rifle platform. Hey, there you go! Shorten the 300 Whisper/blackout case down to fit regular length handgun magazines when loaded with 110 grain bullets.
Maybe I missed it with all the negativity in the article you linked, but a skinnier projectile has a higher sectional density than a larger one of the same weight. I see this as a tremendous advantage.
There’s plenty of 45acp ammunition out there with similar energy numbers to 9mm.
The formula for energy is velocity times velocity times weight divided by 450,436. This formula obviously puts twice the emphasis on velocity as weight. I think the new cartridge will probably be quite effective if it is given a fair chance. Thanks for posting about it. I’ll have to go buy one and try it out soon!
Do you feel the size difference in the 30 Super to be significantly different than the 9mm? Is it enough to make it worth creating a whole new round over and moving resources to, instead of focusing on getting current ammo numbers back to where they were pre 2020?
Do I find it significantly different from 9mm? It’s too early to tell. Lots of marketing propaganda out right now and few facts. What are the case dimensions? What is the operating pressure? And they only got about 20 percent of what I asked for correct. At this point it’s probably a rimless 32 auto loaded to higher pressure. I can’t even find it on the S&W website. Too bad they used a deceptive inflated name for it right from the get-go.
The Federal website compares it to 380 and I do feel its better than 380 even with as little information as I can find right now. Just checked and 30 Luger has about 290 ft lbs energy. So the not “30 super” is weaker than the century old 30 Luger. It’s close and a smaller diameter cartridge so it could be a hit in the carry market.
The moving resources thing and taking away from making common calibers doesn’t upset me. If I fall below a comfortable quantity of ammunition For a particular caliber then I halt my practice. I watched ammunition go out of stock at an online vendor. 10mm 460 and 500 magnum and 25 auto were some of the last to disappear as the buying frenzy progressed. Now the common calibers are pretty easily found. They are at higher prices than I like, but it is available.
I’m happy to see something new released. I get tired of looking at the most recent 9mm on the cover of magazines every month. Same story different day thing.
So Federal shows it having about one inch more penetration than 9mm in their example. That goes back to the sectional density aspect I was talking about earlier. Long skinny penetrates better than short and wide. I’ve never purchased anything lighter than 230 grain 45 acp because of poor sectional density.
Do I believe this new cartridge will unseat the 9mm? No way Jose!
I do think it’s way better than the 45 gap that was a flop. It was definitely a one trick pony. I wish they had gone with the 0.308” bore size, instead of 0.312 but they may have chosen it to use up the excess 327 bullets collecting dust…
0.312” bullets may have presented less liability for the creators.
Fair enough, and I totally get the want for better .30 cal ammunition. I’m also not saying that it won’t be found to be an effective self-defense caliber. I just personally think it isn’t a significant improvement to anything that is currently on the market and all resources should be used to fix the current ammo shortage issue in the present.
All points valid and well stated. In the smaller than 9mm Luger category I see it being a top performer. Weather the public adores it is to be determined. 50% deeper penetration than a 380 seems significant to me, since 380 has been criticized for lack of penetration at times. It also has about 30% more energy than the 380acp too. I wish my truck would go 50% further on a tank of fuel.
The issue with the public will be gaining acceptance in an already crowded field.
I’m a fan of having options. I think the 327 Federal cartridge is great for options. Same concept as 45 Colt, 454 Casull and 460 S&W.
I looked at the Hodgdon reloading site In the handgun data section and they show a max velocity for a 100 grain bullet in 30 carbine at 1760 FPS. That equates to 687 ft/lbs of energy. I assume that’s from a ruger Blackhawk with a 7.5” barrel. Not easily concealable but substantial for a handgun. AMT made a semi-auto handgun chambered in 30 carbine so it’s possible to contain that power in a semi-auto pistol. I asked for something with 30 Carbine power that fits existing length magazines since that was one of the pitfalls of the AMT having a huge grip to accommodate the length of the 30 carbine cartridge. I don’t even know if Federal read my comments on the survey. I think the 30 Remington AR is a fantastic cartridge as well, but it’s probably even deader than the other cartridges that have been mentioned today. Was it commercially successful, no, but still great ballistically for the platform it was designed to fit into.
I’ll wager that you guys that aren’t interested in this new 32 probably aren’t interested in the 5.7x28 cartridge either. It’s still hanging in there though.
You would win that wager… For handguns, I have .22, 9mm, 38 Superb and .45ACP. Well, 45 LC as well. Got no problems with new calibers, just not buying anymore myself. Dumped the .380, not a bad one, just can only reload for so many…
Well there’s another less popular cartridge. The 9mm super. Or 38 superb as I have recently heard it called. Hot number itself. I’d like one of those as well but it’s limited to single stack platforms as far as I know?
@Barry54 yup, the 38 Superb has a small but loyal following. Not very easy finding carry ammo for it, but they are a lot of fun. 38 Super Comp is rimless, and would be a blast in a Glock… I might bite on that setup.
I will just email Glock, I am sure they will have one by spring.