I am really starting to get irritated with some of these Youtubers badmouthing USCCA. They usually bring up two cases to try to bolster their arguments: the Alan Colie case, and the Kayla Giles case. Now, I am not an attorney, nor was I there for either incident, but after really looking at the facts, and the statements of the accused, it is painfully obvious that neither of these defendants were legally justified in their use of deadly force. I do not blame USCCA or it’s insurance company for walking away on these two cases. Why SHOULD they defend criminals who obviously were not in fear for their lives when they shot? Colie was not in actual eminent danger of severe bodily harm; he was being harassed at best. Giles committed cold murder, plain and simple. Why would a company insure someone for committing illegal acts, which is against the law anyway? I agree with USCCA and Delta Defense in their opinions and decisions on these two cases, 100%
Alan Colie was never denied coverage, and my understanding is that he has a different attorney now (vs trial), being paid by USCCA member benefits, for the ongoing appeal.
Giles did indeed commit a pre planned murder, and she even got some money (to the tune of $50k, not recouped by the insurer) initially during litigation until evidence even more clearly indicated it was not self defense.
Let’s put it this way: USCCA has been around 20 years, there are give or take 800k members now, and these two cases are the ones the naysayers and competitors/those associated with competitors point to.
I think that makes USCCA membership look damn good, if you ask me
Thousands of members with legal assistance to the tunes of many millions (I want to say tens of millions) of dollars, and these are the two “but they…” examples?
Yeah, I’ll take that.
OK, I’ve read several threads about this. I would point out one thing that is obvious to me.
IF you are convicted of injuring or killing someone with a firearm and it was NOT deemed self defense and an insurance company pays for your defense and you get LOCKED UP, you will have no income. So if you don’t have $50K sitting in a bag in your closet the insurer isn’t going to get much back.
It’s also worth noting that, to date, the USCCA’s insurer has not recovered any defense expenses spent on behalf of a member
Should a member or additional insured have a covered act of self defense, and that individual then pleads guilty or is convicted final non appealable, at that point the insurer could seek recovery and recoupment.
Look, My Brothers and Sisters,
Last time I checked, It’s a Free country (for now)
People have the RIGHT to choose SD/Insurers/Companies
and they have a RIGHT to bad mouth any company-Individual
Warranted or not, or just because they are Jerks
(or they are working for the competition!)
THAT is Why USCCA works for ME
Tim and Company ( USCCA–Just to be clear) Exude 'Q’uiet Confidence
I TRUST THESE PEOPLE TO HAVE MY BACK
If I’m ever in a ‘shoot’ and I did the RIGHT thing they will back me up till
all issues are settled . Of this I have no doubt.
I am also taking into consideration people are people and I have written (3)
Lawyers and liked their responses to my 'Q’uestions and one of them WILL
respond promptly if called upon. I did not like the competitions responses to
‘How do I trust ‘your’ Attorneys to respond to me? and will it be prompt?’
It sounded like I was looking at an old rolodex and a ‘take my chances’, hit or miss on
who I was going to get. That is not acceptable.
I also didn’t like all this ‘bashing’ and Negative energy these creeps put out there. Flooding
‘YT’ with anti USCCA vid’s. That’s dirty tactic’s, how can I TRUST someone w/ dirty tactics??? You can’t
You just don’t instill confidence if you stand next to another street vendor selling the same product YELLING how the other guys products suck! You hawk your product with excellent customer service and selling the best product you can lay your hands on.
This is the same thing as wondering if you are going to perform well enough if you have a shoot.
We will never know if we picked the right Self defense company until they are really needed.
You (well I) have to trust my gut instincts and USCCA comes up aces (for me).
Their card in my wallet and their Lawyers numbers on my phone is a Blessing.
TRUST is hard earned but you have to trust yourself you are making a correct choice
I got really turned off when the competition to get me to sign up during my ‘requal’ and bashed the
piss out of TIM personally. You just don’t do that. Personal attacks only turn me off.
And then when that didn’t work, they said 'Why don’t you leave this course then?
Who the Phuck are you anyway I told them you are an advertiser not the course host.
hawk your wares and then STFU! If we don’t buy into your SH** STFD!
Not only didn’t I sign I never went back to that range again and I told them why, they were really pissed
at the Insurer. Dirty tactics will shoot you in the foot every time. Guaranteed.
Just because you want something to be true, didn’t make it true…
If you depend on an insurance company (the money behind any defense at uscca) to pre-decide whether you were justified in self defense or not, and whether they will cover your case or not, there is a distinct conflict of interest, in that they cannot legally defend anything they pre-decide is a crime, or does not have enough evidence to feel they can successfully mount a self defense claim. Additionally, while they may not yet have actually clawed back defense fees from anyone, the very fact that the statement is included is troubling enough.
If you use a partner that self-insures their clients with annual member fees (ie CCW safe), and is not legally bound by insurance laws (to not support a criminal charge - of any kind, including plead cases to settle) I think you’re in a better position.
I would think that uscca with hundreds of thousands of members, could by now easily ditch the insurance company policy and self insure their clients, without an the legalities that come with them. I mean how many defense cases could they possibly defend in a year vs how much in dues they collect each year.
Sorry uscca. I’m a former member. But for what it’s worth, I still enjoy the group chat.
To be clear, there is a big difference between being charged with a crime, and being convicted (final non appealabe) of a crime, or pleading guilty to a crime.
But also to be clear, if you commit a crime and then plead guilty to that crime, it was not self defense, it was the crime you plead guilty to, and in that case, the insurer could seek recovery of defense expenses spent to that point
If I would have written convicted instead of charged in the above sentence, it would have been more correct. I agree. It was an error in syntax, but the point is the same.
If you plead out to a crime, potentially any crime, you might get the short end of their stick. I don’t like the way it feels. I’ve been in spats with insurance companies before. Didn’t like it at all.
I disagree that charged vs convicted in syntax, because one of the big misinformation points being spread out there is based on confusing those two things, but they are quite different…especially since the policy USCCA members are additional insureds on defines conviction as the final, non-appealable conviction
If you claim to have acted in self defense, but you later admit it was not self defense and rather was a crime, you do have the possibility of the insurer seeking recovery of the defense expenses they laid out to defend you from that crime.
To date, the USCCA insurer has not recovered funds in this manner, but they could.
This is part of why training and education is the main benefit of members. To avoid the danger in the first place if possible, to survive/win the defensive encounter if forced into it, and then also to have the best possible fact pattern for your defense so that that defense, with the no limit defense expenses (for the covered act of self defense), prevents you from pleading guilty when you were in fact acting legally (I can’t know, but I suspect most guilty pleas are from someone who committed a crime and/or they don’t have the resources/money to fight it in court all the way)
*Also note that violation of a conceal carry or similar law does not count towards conviction per that policy
I think you might be being to subtle for the forum bro. How do you really feel? Asking for a friend.
This is the most truthful statement on anything I have ever posted .
I am NO Diplomat, Never was. Just ask the Phuckin’ Tali’s, The Mujis or the ‘Skinnie’s’
They will tell you what I am. PERIOD. Tellin that Friend.
Where we Go 1 We Go All
Ouch, was meant as a joke brother man. I will make sure I remember the roflcopter next time
…\ _…|–|—|…\ ….…
…/ L _,/-------____
…\ L /,—‘’-----------, /…
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Dang my poor roflcopter crashed phooking copy paste pos
That was NOT directed at You Brother. I mean this!
It was a statement of FACT
I know a goof/gag/, Joke when I hear one
But your POST opened that door!
But I AM tired of this little ‘PLAY’ they are trying to make us live.
I speak my mind now more than ever. I speak MY Truth
I AM sick of these Liar’s and Criminals doing their ‘Dirty Deeds’
WE NEED TO FIND OUR BALLS! and on this Forum I can rouse and reach more LION’s
than I could on my own.
We can joke and make fun and that is OK
But this Beautiful country is getting PISSED on by some of our very own
We need to WAKE THE PHUCK UP!
Are you ‘CHANNELING’ BobbyJean now?
You scare me brother!
(I don’t like that!)
I threw in the ball of yarn and Moai for good measure.
I followed the top secret coded instructions there for u brother man.
I am seriously swole now… Or