Tactical and Legal Analysis on NM incident?

Albuquerque, NM shooting at the protest. There are videos and some narrative in the story.

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There is so much spin on this story from the MSM that I truly fear for those 4 young men.

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Has anyone been following this recent shooting at an Albuquerque Antifa protest?

Does the fact that the shooter knowingly chose to carry a concealed firearm to an Antifa protest negate his option to self-defense?

It might be argued that he forfeited his Right to self-defense by carrying a weapon to a place where violence was likely to occur.

edit: video

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I think the bigger issue he will have is that he “waded” into the crowd, and picked a fight. Had he just been there, and someone attacked HIM, he’d have a lot better argument. He initiated an aggressive point of contact. Even if it was a statue of an ancestor of his, we do not carry to defend stuff. He could take video, and pictures, then let the authorities do their job of arresting and seeking the prosecution of vandals. He, nor any other person from the article, was in danger, until HE assaulted the “protesters.”

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I agree, and at the risk of being labeled “liberal”, I recognize and abide by the law that one may not initiate a confrontation, and then claim self-defense after a shooting.

Baca should have never traveled to the event while concealed carrying a firearm.

A responsible concealed-carry advocate cannot “pick a fight” with someone and then shoot someone while claiming self-defense.

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Combined two threads on the same topic into one. ~Dawn

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Also this one. :blush:

Prosecutors are investigating the possibility of bringing enhanced charges of “hate crimes” against the defendants.

The ambiguous charge of a hate crime enhancement becomes entirely political.

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As concealed carriers we shoot to stop the threat. So if you were attacked, pulled your gun and shot the attacker, the attacker then turns to run you can not chase him and continue to shoot at him. Or you have just negated your claim to self defense.

In this video, the eventual shooter, ran a block while being hit by men with skateboards, one man had a knife, (you do have to watch the slo-mo replay to see it) he attempted to escape, until knocked to ground, then he drew his gun and fired. Do I think it will matter, depends on the make up of the county his trial takes place in.

But if I had to guess I would say his goose is cooked along with his friends in this case.

My 2 takeaways.

  1. Don’t do stupid stuff, with stupid people at stupid times and places.

  2. Most sobering and disturbing was at the end of one of the videos there was a man and woman talking in normal conversational tones to the guy sitting, within 4 seconds they were screaming and literally frothing at the mouth screeching and screaming at him. That’s how quickly a gathering can turn into a mob.

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Baca initiated the confrontation.

Yes, he was subsequently attacked by multiple assailants.

In lieu of jury nullification, Baca will be found guilty of all charges.

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This statement makes no sense at all. Are we only supposed to CC to places where violence is unlikely to occur?

It could be argued that the discretion of avoiding such protests may be the safer choice, but no one should have to stifle their own free speech simply because someone else might be upset by it. The protesters initiated the violence, thus they are the ones who gave up their right to claim self defense.

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Perhaps you’re right. I won’t argue with you.

Maybe all legal concealed carry citizens should arm themselves to the teeth and attend their local Antifa protests.

Of course, when multiple anonymous Antifa protestors “swing for the bleachers” with fists or steel bicycle locks to cave our skulls in, perhaps we should all just dial 911 and curl into a fetal position while pretending that law and order still exists.

I’m fairly certain that you took my quote out of context.

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It’s all up to the jury.

A jury consists of twelve persons chosen to decide who has the better lawyer.

  • Robert Frost
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That’s my ultimate point.

The only thing that will save Baca is jury nullification.

It is a remote possibility.

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You know, destroying a monument because it offends your delicate sensibilities sounds awfully like something ISIS or the Taliban do. While the stuff destroyed thus far doesn’t have as much cultural or historic significance, it’s still doing the same thing.

Getting back on topic, in Virginia, I believe if you instigated the confrontation, you can’t claim SYG or self-defense without trying to first de-escalate the situation. Not sure if there’s anything similar in NM. It looks like he is trying to disengage, but the 3 wouldn’t let him so if there is something similar, it should be justified. Given the current climate, I’m not sure I’d want to try it as I’m sure lots of politicians eager to score brownie points will push for charges.

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Seems like I may be unique (really?) in thinking that the shooting was self-defense?

Assuming he (Baca) has a CCW permit (or maybe AZ allows without permit) he is in a place he is legally allowed to be, doing a thing he is legally allowed to do (protest/counter-protest, right?).

Any words Baca may have said should be countered by words, thats what protesting is about. The moment the 1st guy hit Baca with a skateboard, they crossed a line into physical violence.

And yet, Baca did not draw then. He chose to GTFO. At this point… confrontation #1 is over, no matter who started it, Baca ended it by leaving.

Then the rioters (i’m not calling them protesters) started chasing him. This starts confrontation #2, started by the rioters. (I didnt see it in the video, but the first articles said he pepper-sprayed them at this point to deter). Two tackled him to the ground, a 3rd whacked him (again) with a skateboard, and there is a bunch of people behind them who you dont know their intentions (just filming, or join in the stomping). He is at least 3-1 odds against him including a blunt force instrument. If that doesn’t warrant drawing a firearm, i dont know what does.

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I’m not suggesting Baca was wrong with regard to his actions.

I’m simply suggesting that the incident could have been avoided.

Call me a ■■■■■. I don’t mind. I just don’t go out looking for a fight.

Baca’s 1st Amendment Right may support his 2nd Amendment Right.

An impartial jury will ultimately decide his fate (while a politically divisive State government intervenes).

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Actually, I think it’s self defense but the MSM has already twisted this story so much and government officials are falling all over themselves in acts of appeasement that I fear it won’t matter.

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A long time ago I learned to avoid conflict by avoiding contact. I know that isn’t always possible but it certainly was in this case.

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I am with you 100% on this. Everyone at that statue was in high risk of getting into some kind of trouble.

Don’t go stupid places with stupid people doing stupid things at stupid times.

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