That is very interesting. I had a cop/trainer also say that as a law abiding citizens we should not “Stack Ammo” in magazines. Sure if your out hunting one might go soft point to FMJ and so on. But back in the real world criminals stack rounds. As long as it says 9mm they will load it due to ignorance and getting whatever they can get there hands on. So come court day. You don’t want to give the bad guy anything to go on. Thanks for the post Allen.
“Stack ammo…” If this means something like staggering FMJ and JHP rounds in the same magazine, or reloads with OEM ammo, or other combinations…it never came up at the prosecutor staffings I was part of on homicide matters. On the criminal side, we didn’t get into that weed patch. The shooting was justified, or it wasn’t.
If I’m reading this right, and stacked is mixed, why would anyone care? I do this all of the time.
Hold on, you’re mixing different types of ammo in your magazine? Why? If you’re carrying for self defense, carrying the same ammo through your magazine can make a huge difference in how you shoot from round to round.
Why would it matter? FMJ have different penetration than JHPs as do different brands. In a legal situation that may result after a physical self-defense incident, we need to be able to articulate why we did what we did. Are we using the best practices that are outlined by the experts and carrying in the safest possible manner? Not knowing what type of round is going to fire out of our gun for any given shot is not a good thing.
Stacking=Reckless…self defense ammo is designed to stop or slow down on contact decreasing the chance of over penetration which would put possible bystanders at risk.
I didnt know the name was “stacking”, but I’ve heard of people doing that. The thought is if the first round (lets say a hollow point) didnt penetrate because the person was wearing 10 layers of denim, then the second round would be a FMJ which should then penetrate better. Alternating rounds then in a mag will give you one round with expansion, one round with penetration.
Some shotgun folks do something similar by loading the first round as a beanbag/rubber ball, then birdshot, then buckshot, then slug. (I dont know if this also is considered “stacking”).
In both cases, I dont like the idea as you never know how many rounds you’ll be able to get off, and maybe you’d really rather the hollow point when you get the FMJ… Or maybe you’d rather the buckshot but you’ve got to get rid of the beanbag and birdshot first.
In my Kel-Tec KSG I have 2 receivers, one is loaded with slugs and the other is 00 Buck. The receivers can be switched on the fly by flicking the selector. I installed a slightly larger selection lever, so I can use wrist rather than having to release gun to manually manipulate it.
Is that considered a bad thing?
I think the KSG is a totally different animal since you control which side you want to fire from. With “stacking” you dont control which one fires next.
With my example above, the person with a regular pump-action single-tube shotty goes from beanbag -> birdshot -> buckshot -> slug, to represent escalating threat responses from non-lethal to lethal to really really lethal If they wanted a slug, they’d have to get rid of the first X shells by either shooting them or running the action to discard.
Another example I just thought of is some folks carry one mag of hollow points, and another mag of FMJ.
In your case, you would switch directly from beanbag -> slug (or buckshot -> slug). The worst you’d have in that case is “only” 7 rounds in your preferred tube instead of 14.
The KSG is unique in the way you can almost instantly switch ammo types (faster than a mag change). It would be a training issue to make sure you were cognizant of which tube you were firing from and what is in it. The other options require you to either eject live rounds or shoot rounds “you dont want” before you get to the one you want.
I think I’ve talked myself into getting a KSG…
I agree that generally stacking is legally a bad idea. If you are considering the ammo you carry it makes sense to be consistent.
That said, there may be some cases to consider stacking, such as shot and slugs in a shotgun or 410 and 45 in a Judge. The keys would be to know what is coming out of the barrel with each shot and be able to articulate why. For example, I start with bird shot which is less likely to be lethal and if that doesn’t work, a 1 oz. slug is more likely to stop the threat quickly …
That is easier to do with a shotgun than with a judge.
I really like mine, I will say adding the muzzle brake to it, took it from a fairly brutal kick, to a much more manageable kick.
One other thing you may want is a charging handle due to it being easy to stroke it and your hand slip past the muzzle. Needless to say that’s no bueno
I have found no meaningful difference between how I shoot one type of ammo and another. Perhaps I am just a terrible shot!
@Brad think about this,…it’s late night, you hear someone break in to your home and you reach for your weapon, do you want bullets that will penetrate thru the target, as well as thru all your walls and jeopordize your family in the next room? Or a bullet that will explode on contact when hitting the target, minimizing the chance of any potential accidents?..this is one “meaningful difference”
I know you referred to how you “shoot”, but one must also consider what happens after we take the shot
Of course, for carry, but at the range I’ll mix anything…and can barely perceive a difference. I have mixed three or four kinds of defense ammo and shot it at the range and also noticed virtually no difference in how I shoot it. So I guess my point is mixing defense ammo or mixing Target ammo, but not the two together, seems fine to me. I also can’t imagine that the court would care but I could be wrong.
The last two rounds in my .357 cyclinder are always flat-nosed, hard-cast bullets in case I need more penetration or have to fire through cover. I also live in bear/moose/cougar country, so it’s nice to have them when out on a stroll(though I do have a different woods gun for when I know I’m going back country.).
Yeah that is what I meant by other than hunting. My side arm I stack for that same purpose when I’m out Elk hunting. Rifle for the Elk and the pistol is for pucker moments from cats, moose, even black bear. But back I. The city limits is what I was refer to
never stack. But if I was lucky enough to live in back country. I’d always carry stacked. Unfortunately I have to deal with the worst animal of them all when I’m out of the woods and back home.
That is what I mean. If your in your house where I live it wouldn’t matter. But if your unfortunate enough to get in a street shoot out with thugs it would matter. According to him. I’m just passing on what I’ve been told. Also he mentioned trigger jobs, personal loads, and all that could be used against you by the prosecution. Saying you were wanting to get in a shoot out. You planned for it blah blah blah. I always put Trijicon sights on mine. I think that could be argued in court. But I’m in a gun friendly, stand your ground state. So I don’t worry as much as people who live in the liberal communist states.
I realize it is not SD per se, but we do this, or have done this, in 3gun with shotguns. KSG would be an exception. Anyway, I actually stopped doing it and found another way. Nothing like shooting a birdshot round on a 50/100y steel target to waste valuable time. Or putting birdshot on a paper slug target.
I have a fair number of .45’s, 2 of which have had significant work done on them. I keep those 2 .45’s completely separate in a different safe from my other .45’s that I could conceivably use for self defense.
My EDC is a straight out of the box 4th gen. Glock 30. I shoot what the majority of LEO in my town said they shoot, out of their personal home defense gun. Hornady Critical Defense.
I don’t have gun stickers or Pro 2A stickers, I don’t Open Carry, I don’t dress tacticool. When I had my daughter I ruthlessly culled all of my off color humor T-shirts, I did the same when started to carry 24/7. As my body let me know I wasn’t the guy I was even 15 years ago.
I am not looking for trouble, I do not want any trouble, but I still train, because sometimes you don’t get to decide if trouble comes calling. I try to live the precepts of a “Gray Man” existence. Short of actually seeing me load and unload guns to and from the range I don’t have anything that says gun about me except my USCCA range bag and my CCL and my USCCA card. I don’t even wear my USCCA branded gear except in the house.
The point of all of this text. Is that I strive to eliminate as much risk from my life as I can. I am naturally risk adverse so it doesn’t surprise anyone who knows me.
Doing things that make you an outlier, make you interesting to DA’s.
It was a sad day when my body finally convinced my brain that I wasn’t the young man I used to be. But I pretty much did all the above. But like I said, I did put night sights on my main carry. My eyes are way older than my mind. And I’m out before sunrise more often than not.
I prefer to keep it simple.
230 g JHP in .45
158 g SWC in .38