Should you carry with one in the chamber?

[Clyde4]

Harvey/Gary - Great observations. After responding to the first comment, I got to thinking about the mechanics of how the extractor slips over the cartridge as it picks up a round from the magazine, vs. what it has to do to slip over the end of the cartridge if the round is already chambered or mostly in the chamber. Depending on the spacing at the chamber, that could be a truly more stressing task for the extractor to perform.

Thank you for making the point - I might have gone on for years and chewed up the means to reload and fire. And if the extractor is broken - it is only a single shot pistol, truly single shot. Might as well have a muzzle loader.

A great benefit of the community are these bits and pieces. I’ve been shooting for about 60 years now, all kinds, and had no idea about this (not that I’ve ever made a claim to expertise :-)). Just curious if this helped anyone else… (anyone?) I’m grateful to have this little bit of key ignorance removed… Thanks again, this was a great and potentially life saving bit of information.

[Johnnyq60]

@Bjorn , when I do dry fire drills I practice as if it were real. I always try to do it as if I were at the range. But the only thing that makes it difficult is that most indoor ranges don’t let you draw from a holster. You mentioned muscle memory, you are correct because you practice what you preach. Also about conditioning ourselves to pull the trigger on the draw, I can see how that can occur. I agree with all your points 100 percent. We do have to be cautious because what we train and practice is what we will end up doing.

[Scoutbob]

Glad this guy didn’t carry one in the pipe… (he’s also a bad guy)

Armed Robber Uses Jammed Gun in Armed Robbery | Active Self Protection

[KURT17]

You might as well stick to a 1911 - not having one in the spout defeats the purpose of SA/DA and DAO.

[Stacey]

I did carry with one chambered, then I changed my mind after visiting with a friend. For the life of me, I can’t remember what he said. Now I’m back to one chambered. Single woman, want to be aware and ready. Be safe all-

[Johnnyq60]

Welcome to the family @Stacey and you are blessed to be here.

[Burdo]

Two different views on using the external thumb safety presented below. They reminded me about carrying one in the chamber or not. As someone else mentioned, to not carry one in the chamber is not wrong, as it is better than not carrying at all. Enjoy these vids:

Not using a thumb safety…

The PROBLEM with a Thumb Safety on a Pistol

Using a thumb safety…

Manual Safety Nonsense

[Dave17]

“Safeties are not a problem”, until you forget or when it fails. One of the first rules about firearms I remember my father telling me as a very young child is that safeties can and do fail.

[Alexander8]

No mechanism is 100% reliable, but if you compare chance of mechanical safety failing on a pistol to the chance of failure in action and cycling overall, you must find auto pistols pretty unreliable. Got to switch to a revolver!
Human error is another thing of course.

[Jerzees]

@Alexander8

Got to switch to a revolver!

and what we have here?..
OMG … thumb safety…

[Dan6]

I always have one in the chamber. I personally can’t see carrying if the firearm isn’t ready for a self defense situation.

[Dave17]

@Alexander8

if you compare chance of mechanical safety failing on a pistol to the chance of failure in action and cycling overall, you must find auto pistols pretty unreliable.

The point is that in firearms training, it is one of the highlighted points that safeties do fail, so you should not rely on a safety to keep you safe. The only real safety are the 4 golden rules of firearm safety (though the NRA now teaches 3 rules).

NRA Three Rules:
Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction
Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot
Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use

[Shamrock]

@Dave17

Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use

I assume by “use” they are including carrying or staging for self defense. Otherwise this looks like bad language in a bad gun control bill. Hoplophobes would take this to mean the gun must be unloaded until you need to shoot it. Excuse me mister criminal, I have to open my safe to get my gun, then open my other safe to get my unloaded magazine, then open my other safe to get my boxes of ammo. Just give me another minute to load it all and get it ready;)

[Dave17]

@Shamrock

they are including carrying or staging for self defense

Yes, the explanation of the rules do go into more detail and list “exceptions”, such as when carrying, etc., that most of us already understand. I just tried to keep the post short. The short of it is that unless more than one rule is broken, you are likely to still be safe.

[Shamrock]

It can be a challenge to distill the safety rules into the shortest most concise list possible. But new shooters do need the simplest form possible in order to get the most important points. Those three rules are probably easier to digest and most relevant to new owners taking their new purchase home. Though the knowing your target and what lies beyond is pretty important on the off chance they decide to actually practice with it or have to use it in self defense.

I am just worried about the push in some states to have ammo and guns stored in separate safes. This makes absolutely no sense unless your only concern is the safety of the criminals breaking into these homes.

[Dave17]

Very true, which is why we always stress that training and practice are very important. A good trainer, class, etc., will provide examples and expound on these points to aid in understanding these points and why they are so important. Even today, I will re-read basic safety information, just like others read their Bible. You know what’s in it, but it is that vitally important to you that you read it again, and again.

[Rick101]

Spot on Steve-G.
As a 38+ year retired LEO/firearms instructor/SWAT team member I agree wholeheartedly, especially contemplating your response PRIOR to the feces hitting the fan moment. PRIOR mental preparation is a key part of how any life threatening episode is handled.

[Johnnyq60]

Welcome to the family @Rick101 and you are blessed to be here.

[Todd30]

Carrying with an Empty Chamber

Though, I do carry with one in the chamber!

[Clyde4]

I like your take, Dave17 (and your thoughts Shamrock). I think it would be fine to elaborate - the community is at least in part a forum for sharing that which we’ve found valuable.

I love what I call “The Big Three” rules and none of our campers can get any range time at all until they can recite them from memory on their own. “No big deal you say” but some of our campers are age 8, and so it takes them a number of repetitions… but they are highly motivated, and so they do learn and quickly.

But as you said, there is important context. To begin, if you always obey the Big Three, or even just the Big Number One - you’ll never harm anyone when your unintentional discharge happens. I try to emphasize that at some point in almost every shooter’s lifetime there will be an unintentional discharge. It may very well be from a mechanical failure over which the shooter truly didn’t have control… or it may be from not following other critical handling and safety practices.

In my lifetime I’ve had one - the trigger mechanism on a vintage STEN Gun failed, and I had a runaway submachine gun for about 15 rounds. This occurred during firing, but when I released the trigger after my intended burst, the gun kept going until the magazine was emptied. It didn’t take long but was very disconcerting for the duration of the run out. That was an unintended discharge - times 15 ish. In this case I was already pointed down range and safe, so no harm done other than the momentary negative impact on my nervous system.

A friend of mine and military rifle team coach had an extractor fail while he was clearing his hunting rifle, and after “cycling the bolt three times” to ensure an empty chamber he (continuing to point safe) pulled the trigger and had a surprising and wholly unintended discharge. Rule Number One saved him and his party from any injury or destruction… saving him even though he ignored (in this one case!) the requirement to visually and physically ensure the chamber was empty prior to closing the bolt and pulling the trigger.

So just Rule one and you will never unintentionally harm anyone.

In providing broader context I ask students “OK, Rule One - repeat - good. Now… WHERE is ‘safe’ ?” Usually there is a mix of no clue at all and “Up” or “Down” or possibly “down range.” Then we mentally walk through a multistory house carrying a gun and think about others in the house and the neighbors. “Safe” changes continuously through the walk. It also dramatically illustrates why Rule Two and Rule Three are included in the Big Three.

Rule Two is very helpful and sometimes tricky to get folks to practice, but they get it. I wonder for some if all the video and/or still photography with various celebrity types posed with their fingers ON the trigger has anything to do with people [teens on up] not starting out with good habits.

Rule Three presents a whole series of scenarios with the conversation starting with “Well, when must you be ready to use your firearm?” I usually refer to policemen or soldiers frequently being required to use in an instant, yet even they operate in circumstances where they may need to unload and clear their weapons, even though they are within a hotter area overseas and subject to needing to use their weapons quickly, They are in such cases depending on security forces outside the dining hall who have not unloaded, to give them notice and time to load and go to work.

Once I’ve walked through various scenarios enough to ensure a starting grasp of the concepts and they are ready, we’ll step out to the range (or head over to the range, depending) and after rehearsing again we’ll add the target ID and downrange past the target.

To wrap up this potentially annoyingly long post (in spite of my earlier encouragement to others) an eye opening addition to training for both introductory and intermediate level shooters is to take googlemaps printouts with range circles to illustrate the potential impact zones for various cartridge/firearm combinations. If you look 6 miles (10 ?) down range (assuming something escapes over the berm) it can be shocking - depending on where your range is located and its orientation. To me it seems like since adding this bit of data to shooting instruction and range safety briefings, shooters of all experience levels seem to increase their discipline at least a little, even when “pointed down range.”