I agree with that, but the responsibility of a right is on each and every one of us. This responsibility, I believe, is on the person, not assigned by the government but by every man. The laws of this nation can take away rights such as this if we are not responsible with our guns. If someone new nothing about guns and went to the range and lined up beside me and shot me because he knew nothing, I wouldn’t say we need more restrictions on guns. I would say he needs more responsibility to know how to operate the gun. It’s either that or go into defense mode and that would do neither one of us any good.
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See, that’s exactly what I mean. So how much training is enough? How much does it cost? Who can do the training? Those questions become barriers to entry and can be used to throttle your rights.
I mean, we haven’t already experienced what 3 letter Federal Agencies have already done when they are allowed to “interpret” existing law. The ATF under Joe Biden’s Administration just tried to turn 40,000,000 legal, law abiding, citizens into criminals over a couple of pieces of rubber and Velcro straps. Joe Biden and his Administration with no new laws, just Executive Orders (14 of them) destroyed the American Economy by severely hampering the Energy Sector of our Economy.
But sure, let’s give the Federal Government more power. It’s worked out so well for us.
Edit: Cleaned up sentence structure.
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I’m not talking about the Federal Government. I’m talking personal responsibility for a right the Constitution gave us. How much training is enough? In my case, enough is what it takes to not shoot me because you don’t know what you are doing. Know safety, it only helps us all.
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And that is exactly what we are discussing on this thread.
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Personal Responsibility. That’s what we should seek. Not more power to the very people the Founding Fathers wrote the Constitution to constrain.
Couldn’t agree more. I have thousands of hours of training both military and civilian and consider myself an amateur who still seeks out training. But the responsibility rests with me. Not the Government. If it really concerns you, and I am not being ugly. Don’t go to those places. Lobby a LGS to set up a training curriculum before they allow a new shooter. I didn’t like not being able to draw from Concealed at my LGS, so we lobbied them to put a training solution in place so we could draw from Concealed. It was important to me so my local 2A group set up a meeting, with the owner of our LGS, and helped sell him the idea of how he could make money from it. No new law was needed. He set up a draw from concealed class that has to be taken annually and you are allowed to draw/fire from Concealed. You don’t have to take it, it’s your personal responsibility and decision, if you want that. I took it, because it was important to me not because of a law. have to wear a sign on my back so the staff and RSO can see I have had the training they require and I can draw and fire from Concealment. Set up a range on BLM land, talk to your Power Company, my 2A group did waaaay back in the 90’s, and we made a range on the Power Companies land, phone a friend (sorry, weak “Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?” joke).
Because once the Government becomes involved, they decide when enough training is enough, who can do the training (who trains the trainers) market prices will go into affect the cost of training. These are all easily manipulated "Barriers To Entry’. But trust me they will actively throttle what it takes to become the trainer, and who trains the trainers.Name any Federal Program that has not eventually become a bloated caricature of what it started out to be.
Edit: cleaning up sentence structure
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I wish I had some training when I first got my first pistol. I was raised shooting rifles but never handled a pistol till I was 23. I got a Smith and Wesson 357 magnum. I applied my gun knowledge to the pistol, but it was not till a year later that I took a pistol class in 1984. I have felt bad about some of the basic rules of gun safety that I could have avoided. I put my finger on the trigger on a loaded 44 magnum and pointed it at my T.V. the poor TV never saw it coming. The trigger was very touchy and mt ears were ringing. The old fashion consol TV tube shattered. An ounce of training would have been handy. That being said, training would be the best thing for a new shooter and if you are not aware of what could happen then a hard lesson will pursue. I do believe as a responsible gun owner now that there should be more guidance from a R.O. and assisting new shooters at a range as a precaution and assistance standpoint. people would be willing to get assistance when it is presented properly. There is nothing worse than having a R.O. screaming on the intercom at some idiot doing something wrong. It is even worse when you realize you are the idiot getting yelled at. That is another story though. When the range was called cold I went to pack up my guns and leave. I did not realize that handling guns when the range is cold was a no - no. It was my first time at a range. Lesson was learned and I will now never forget it either.
Training is a good thing! Everybody should try it.
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If we are only talking Personal Responsibility. Cool.
But that is not what my takeaway is from this. My takeaway is “Mandating Training”. I completely “
%” agree with it being a personal responsibility. I “%” disagree that it should be “legally mandated”.
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I agree with that. I don’t think training has to come from a certified instructor necessarily, but I do think most people need some help getting started. It could come from your father, brother, friend, or an instructor. Safety, I think, is the biggest thing. It’s like a lot of people say here. The body can’t go where the mind hasn’t been. Or something like that.
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There is truth to this.
I believe that you guy’s are dancing around the answer and
forgive me if you’ve said this already. There is a NEED for Training,
there is a Need for people who are either curious or wish to shoot
firearms (either for kicks/or 'bucket lists or whatever) like going to
Disneypedo land. They don’t want to invest/own have anything to do
with safety/learning they just want the ‘ride’, get the ‘Juice’.
Well, the Ranges have that RESPONSIBILITY to make it safe(r) not only for
these Newbies and wannabe Rambo’s, they need to make it safe for US
the running and Gunning Vet’s (not Military, but experienced shooters who
go there on a regular basis and are now starting to have doubts about our safety.
I won’t go into the whole foreigners coming in to shoot Machine Guns like in Nevada
you can almost rent and shoot an Abrams Tank! Because there has to be some sort
of 'vetting process like preventing ‘Achmed’ an his Towelhead followers from taking hold of a couple of machine guns and tearing innocent gunners to pieces!. Couldn’t happen?
Maybe you haven’t been paying close enough attention.
The issues I see these Ranges raking in the bread, and I see eye-droppers of expense
being shelled out in ‘Security’, going cheap on in-experienced annoying Range Officers.
If you wish to keep the flow of money coming into to your establishment you have to keep your clients alive and not have a couple of Massacre’s under your belt.
It’s like everything else today. Businesses don’t want to ‘BAN’ a person because they feel they will lose the money, but when I see/hear an Accidental Discharge and see unsafe Gun handling I head for the Hills (or Mesa (Open Space) for quite some time). When I go into my Lane and I see NEW bullet holes REAL CLOSE in the side panels, the Target holders shredded that gives me pause. I am NOT concentrating on MY Training because I am looking out for dipsh!t and his
GF sweeping me while taking selfie’s of themselves, and now the thought of Juan, Jose and Bob coming from Ecuador (prolly the nicest guy’s in the World) and they have Tat’s on their faces I am going to be concerned for my safety.
MY SAFETY is PARAMOUNT, going to a Local Range to DIE is not on my Bucket list.
Invest some money, and hire some experienced GUNNER’S to provide Security for your patrons.
Maybe make a 'DEDICATED" section (say (10) lanes for the idiots, fools, wannabe’s and Terrorists to ‘Train-in’) If one of those f**ker’s has ill will on their minds and they ‘GO OFF!’
Secure that section and call SWAT! WE LIVE IN DANGEROUS TIMES, (20) MILLION INVADERS ARE HERE! This Topic while informative makes me wonder who’s side the Ranges are on sometimes. I didn’t go through all I went through to get killed locally by a fool or a Terrorists.
Mi dos Centavos
WWG1WGA
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Totally 
At the same time we should not be shocked when we come across articles of 3 year olds shooting their 4 year old siblings!
Can’t teach the three year old, but you can teach the “adult”.
This has nothing to do with government.
How much training is enough? I guess enough not to blow one’s balls off!
Why are there drivers education programs in schools, why do I need a license!
We should possibly take a lesson from Springfield, OH to see how the non training of Haitian drivers is working out. Just hand them the keys, that’s the gas pedal, this is the steering wheel, have a nice day!
Please don’t get me wrong, the government should not be infringing on my right to “own, keep or bare” arms but someone needs to show young people and ignorant people, that there’s a brake pedal and red means stop!
We have to ask ourselves, why are there no PSAs on television or social media 
There used to be formal and informal education in schools! Guns in trucks and WOW no mass shootings! Then the leftist psychos loose their sh1t and boom everyone is shooting up their schools!
We are the ones that need to put a stop to all this!
I truly hope I’m making sense. I think faster than I type!
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OK So, we let the Government or some other entity require us to be trained. Let’s take that to the next logical step. I say NO, I’m not going to pay for and take my time to attend your Gun Training Class (Regardless of my knowledge or lack there of of gun safety). Are we setting up a situation where they lock me out of the range, do they come to my house and take the guns I refused to be trained for, do I get arrested for having a gun with out the required training. Am I the only one that sees a rather slippery slope here?
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Our local indoor range has some pretty strict rules in place for first time shooters, especially the foreign students coming into the University.
All new customers to the range regardless of skill level get vetted by an experienced RSO or Senior instructor. EVERYBODY. Then the same RSO or Instructor will watch that person shoot to ensure he/she is at least adequate enough to send the bullets down the correct direction and not kill themselves. Those folks who are not adequate are removed from the range and either sent on their way or are scheduled for private instruction. After proving some competency, shooters are allowed to go and shoot by just showing ID. The RSO at the counter punches the shooters name into a standalone data base and they go shoot.
When I say “standalone” data base, I mean it is not connected to any other form of electronic information system anywhere. All it tracks is when the shooter was there, what caliber they were shooting, how long they were there and whether or not they have been banned from shooting at that range.
First time shooters who walk in off the street just to shoot must go through training with a certified instructor. They will get vetted same as experienced shooters to ensure they are not “currently” on some terrorist watch list. After going through the vetting process and a minimum of 6 hours of training (range policy), then they came back when they want and shoot. The 6 hours of training not free. The shooter pays an hourly rate for the training, same as everyone else.
Me, personally, I don’t want to have any foreign nationals coming in and getting training because I just don’t trust them. Most of the students coming in from other countries have never even driven a car before and they come over here and just start driving. Lots of accidents. And they want to go shoot guns? No thanks.
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Nope,
You have just completely changed directions of this thread 
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Agree 100 percent. You should try and become competent and proficient. Take some type of safety class or at least learn how to handle the firearm. Cutting first timers loose on a range is risky. If I am at a range and discover that they are practicing in this manner I will not shoot there. I love life,
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Realize on one hand that we need new people in the hobby/sport all of the time. That’s a big part of what FFL’s rely on for income. The rest of us are there with the stuff we already purchased and short of range time are not making the till go as a rule. On the other hand, like you, I get concerned. Not only for the crime reasons mentioned. But as I look back to my early days I can remember realizing all of a sudden I was muzzling others at their stations. Turned around to carry my arm back to the loading shelf and not holstering it and all the rest. At our range we have very good and capable RSO’s, but they only have two eyes. And since they spend a good amount of their time helping new people sort out the target settings, fix jams, whatever, they cannot see others. I did see one very capable dad and his wife bring their two kids for their first time. They rented two lanes and were all over those kids like a rash. I remember thinking that it would be cool if every new person could have that kind of attention from a separate store employee. But that obviously costs a ton. So, since that is not possible, maybe a short class of some sort prior emphasizing that the newby is doing something that, if done wrong, could end up in someone getting hurt or dying. Give them their rules for the range and check in on them, in addition to the RSO during their time. We talk about how part of keeping safe is to make a bad guy know he is seen and is on the radar… why not first (or second, maybe third) time shooters knowing they are on the radar???
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To me you touched on some of the key areas of range ops. Lack of dedicated RSO, too costly. Also, keeping eyes on all the other shooters and then add in having to help the retail floor check-in/out shooters, as well as being tied up with all the other request to assist all shooters on the range. Add the requirement to have an RSO within arm’s reach of anyone running rental full autos, and you can see how spread thin the RSO gets in a heart beat!! Given that I get 9-10k steps in during a 6 hour shift and you see how busy the RSO job is when lanes are not altogether or in a line.
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This seems to be the crux of the matter. There’s no way I’m sticking around with my 12 year old or my 30 year old grandson.
As I’ve said in the past, I’ve seen a lot of holes in the walls! If you think about it, we have kids, we become the “government” lording over our children in an effort to keep them safe and others safe.
I hope no one misunderstands, I don’t want government in my life or my kids lives! We seem to be the responsible ones. I don’t know what to say about the irresponsible parents and shooters out there! I would hope they have a leader in the family to teach and mentor their young people!
I had my dad, my kids had me, my grandkids had me, my son in law had me ( native of the UK, never touched a big scary black rifle in his life ) today he’s our designated marksman! I taught my wife, my great grandkids will probably be taught by my grandsons, BUT NOT WITHOUT ME!
That could be 10 years from now, but it’s my mission in life to make sure she fires her first round under my tutelage! No government intrusion here!
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Are you sure you don’t have those numbers backwards? 
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No, the 12 year old was a metaphor for having a young one on the range! My grandson is 30 and just had a baby girl! My great granddaughter!
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All ranges have the right to mandate any rules they see fit, especially for the safety of everyone on the range. It’s a huge liability if they don’t. I usually have a problem with “mandatory” training. I think most new shooters would opt in for training if it’s offered. But at a minimum, for anyone’s first time at a particular range, regardless of how many years they claim they’ve been handling firearms, they should have to demonstrate with snap caps the safe handling, especially loading and unloading, before they’re allowed to step foot on that range. If the muzzle isn’t consistently pointed in whatever safe direction you’ve given them or if their finger is on the trigger at any time, no range access until they can consistently get it right. Also, I think every range should have a RSO keeping an eye on things. There should also be a database of some sort to keep tabs on certain folks who are a liability or who argue with the RSO or other staff members. You’ve got to know who to keep an eye on as well as who to refuse access to altogether.
I think even most experienced shooters would understand why they were being asked to demonstrate safe handling and an understanding of the range rules when it’s their first time at a range and would happily comply. And I really wouldn’t want anyone in the lane next to me who failed that demonstration or who copped an attitude about having to do it.
I also think gun stores should have stacks of business cards or a printed sheet with reputable instructors available to first time gun owners. I think most would happily sign up for a class if they’re encouraged to do so and the information is given to them. Surprisingly, I haven’t seen much of that.
On a side note, I used to frequent a range that had a “ladies night” once a week where women got half off range time and rentals or something like that. One day, I decided to go that night because hey, chicks with guns. It turned out to be a bunch of guys who didn’t know how to handle firearms bringing their dates to the range for a thrill. You could see all the people on the range through the glass, where they would frequently have a RSO watching, but no RSO that night. I learned really quickly why there were so many holes in the ceiling panels and in the dividers between the lanes. I’m not sure why they didn’t have a RSO keeping an eye on things, but I decided to leave and didn’t go anywhere near that place on ladies night after that. I only went to that range on lunch breaks after that.
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