The first firearm I ever shot was a 20ga. 870. The was at a ‘single’, the term used to describe a quail pointed by the birddog after the covey had been flushed. I believe I was 6 and had tagged along with my father and uncle and carried my trusty daisy pump BB gun on a Alabama Quail Hunt. At age 7 another uncle gave me my first rifle, a Remington semi-auto .22. I received lots of warnings about the .22 because it could shoot a “mile”. Of course the real message had been drilled into me for a few years since I had started to come of age. “Guns are not toys”, “Know your target”, “Know where your round can go”, “Know where your muzzle is pointed”, “Treat your gun as though it is loaded”, etc.
Anyway this long winded lead in is to say a shotgun is the weapon I cut my teeth on. It is the weapon I reach for first. It is the weapon I can handle and shoot better than any other. The rules of firearm safety apply to all firearms. The referenced turkey hunting shooting violated the most basic firearm safety rules and hunting safety rules. It happens with rifles a few times each year as well. In my opinion it happens mostly because in our overly competitive society there is too much pressure to be ‘successful’ and people have come to believe success is the harvest of the animal. Maybe that is a result of our much more urban society, I do not know. It seems to me that most over penetration issues come from the outside and into the home. There’s hardly a week goes by without some gang-banger shooting hits somebody minding their own business sitting in their own home. Those scum do not care where their rounds end up.
The OP message is good, but it applies to all firearms and those who use them. Since I do not have the stats I can only guess, but I would bet that shotguns are not the most likely used firearm in accidental shootings. Anyway, glad I don’t live in a place where 20’ is all that separates me from my neighbors.
Thank you William for your valuable information. All your instruction here are not useless, nor
gone into one ear and out the other. A .22 caliber is very deadly and a stray .22 bullet, do find the
the wrong target. Appreciation to you and have a great weekend
If that was for me, no worries I am not upset or mad. 
I like #4 Buck as well. The Lucky Gunner study I read commented that #4 is most effective using buffered, plated, flight control shot. The author stated that normal, unplated lead shot can deform and not penetrate well enough for defensive use. The same article turned me on to #1 Buck and plated #4 Buck.
At 15 yards with my open Cylinder Remington 870, #1 Buck patterned well on the target. The unplated, non-flight control #4 Buck did poorly. The plated flight control did very well in comparison.
Caveat for me is no neighbors super close. If I were in a normal neighborhood, I would stick with the #4 Buck to avoid over penetration. Since I live where I do, my 870 is loaded up with #1 Buck.
Thank you very much for your help. This is what I needed to build on and I wish you a great day too.
Bill
Of general interest in this discussion this article might be of use to some:
From the article: " extensive FBI testing concluded that adequate terminal ballistic effect takes place when expansion is combined with 12 inches of penetration.“, and this, " I believe the evidence supports #4 through OO buckshot for 12 gauge shotguns and either #4 or #3 buckshot for 20 gauge shotguns used in home or personal defense.”
This is why I don’t currently own a shotgun. Anything powerful enough to hurt someone is going straight through drywall. I like pistol calibers for home defense. I’m shooting one projectile with each trigger pull, hollow points expand and are less likely to over penetrate WHEN they hit the target (if not those are going through drywall too).
I was taught early on that a shotgun was best for home defense because it doesn’t over penetrate, and anyone can use it 
(not true at all). I was also taught that Hollow points wouldn’t travel through walls . We discuss it here a lot, but there’s a lot of misinformation spread by word of mouth. I would not question someone’s choice of using a shotgun for home defense. They are excellent choices if you’re familiar with the gun and how it shoots. I think most home defense situations, a shotgun is an adequate if not superior choice. That being said, I’m sticking with pistol calibers.
I knew I would find the right people, thank for the Shotgun Ballistics.
Bill
This question is one that gets hotly debated to the level of 1911 vs Glock when it comes to bird or buckshot. I personally am fond of 2 3/4" #4 Buck for two or four legged critters up close. Being a military history buff the #4 buckshot was “developed” in WW1 for trench warfare to good success.
That being said I get random emails from Federal and one of them recently is germane to this topic. I think they are called “Mini’s” 12Ga at 1 3/4 " they have #4 Buck @ 1200 fps with IIRC 24 pellets?. I just breezed over the e-mail (didn’t open it, just previewed it) It is slightly less speedy than 2 3/4" @ a nominal 1350 ish fps with the loss of only 3 pellets. Could be interesting if it works in a pump or auto gun.
Cheers,
Craig6
You have been taught very well. I have 12 gauge magnums, 3 to 3 1/2 inches that will take down a
large animal. I have been refreshing and learning to use a shotgun without causing problems
elsewhere. Your information will come to be a great help to me and I appreciate your help. I
have seen many walls that have been breached by 4-6 rounds and soda, 2 Liters can be fun to explode, but that could of been a crowd of people.
A lot factors play into which is your personal weapon of choice in the home defense environment. For me personally in cold hard reality it is simply what turns the odds in my favor as much as possible. Bottom line is should I ever be put in that defensive position I want to end the attack ASAP. If a attack is in progress, or coming my way, I want to end it NOW. That means take out that corner post in front of the attack, don’t worry about hitting a small visible part of the target, take out the target. In my home environment there really is virtually no chance of hitting a innocent target. Again in my environment it is the shotgun and 00 as my first choice. I have my fair share of handguns and can easily get to some of them, but if time and position allow it’s the 870 first. Of course the good thing here for me is the odds of me ever being put in that home defense position are very slim.
The benefit of a home defense shot gun is choice in ammo. I also have found #4 buck to be a good load for inside the home. Once you realize that 15 yards is a 30 foot room you also realize that it give the #4 buck plenty of time to lose steam and reduce penetration. But even if it doesn’t it is very unlikely to go through a person and then through a wall and into your neighbors wall and then through your neighbor. And yes for those that have a AR the 223 or 5.56 might have enough steam to make it through the wall first and then through you neighbor. However the gel tests on #4 buck show it only to over penetrate gel at 3 to 5 yards. Even there it doesn’t clear 17 inches of ballistic gel. But more importantly the range left after passing through a wall is very limited compared to a rifle or heavy pistol round. I would like to add a home defense shot gun doesn’t need a choke. It is designed for close work and so most often has a folding or just a pistol grip stock. Up close it does cause massive damage to the body cavity but even if for some reason some pellets from the #4 buck were to pass through they would be all but spent. A hunting shotgun if a different matter concerning a choke.
What is ideal is low powered (mini shells) rounds for a 12 gauge. With an insert the Mossberg 500 and long tube you can put 10 - 12 rounds of low power 12 gauge. The recoil is less than a 20 gauge and over penetration is hardly a concern. You could use either 00 buck or even slugs in that case. The point however is you would get (9) 30 cal holes in the body of a home invader with one shot. That will take the fight out on almost anyone.
In my opinion what makes the shotgun a reasonable option for home defense is even in a stressful situation you are unlikely to miss a large figure in the doorway or hall way of the average home. with a 12 gauge 00 buck mini load and a mini slug will do a lot of damage as well. Why is it a good option in my “opinion” even with a standard 12 gauge and number 4 buck shot? Because if we are just a bit honest here many of us do not practice with our weapon as much as we should. Qualifying with a 9mm or a 45 and then waiting till a few months before having to re-qualify is far more common than someone going to the range or the field as often as they can. But if you cannot hit a target 5 to 10 yards from you in a constricted hallway or door way with a shot gun maybe it would be better to have a safe room with a steel door and wait for the police. Take that opinion for what it is worth. For a review of the mini shell. Shotgun Mini Shells: A Shotgunner on Their Advantages, Drawbacks and Best Uses - The Truth About Guns
I appreciate your time and help with this help you gave me. Many people can give you
pieces of what you have told me here. Not everybody. There have been a great deal of
help given and am very grateful.
This is priceless. Thank you !
I have a silly question to ask with all this talk about ‘over penetration’. If I’m loaded with something that I expect not to “over penetrate” (say a 1 1/2 in shell filled with squishy gummy bears) does that mean it is ok to shoot at an intruder if my daughter’s bed is on the other side of the 1/2" drywall?
I believe the concept of over penetration comes from a round that passes through a living target and thereby does not dump all of it’s available energy into the target. In my book it is NEVER ok to discharge any firearm without knowing 100% what the layout is on the other side of the wall. That’s rather I’m loaded with honey badgers or gummy bears. Just one man’s opinion…
I see that the article got us to think. Buckshot #4-#5 to prevent over penetration
through any material or any wall. We have the knowledge and training to think it through and
is an educational update. I love ballistics and love to listen to everyone.
I have 60 rounds of Rifled Slugs, 00 Buckshot., and a mixture of 12 gauge ammo and you helped
me to break negative and incorrected teaching of operating a shotgun and ammo. Plus I have 25 rounds of #2 steal shot, 3", 12 gauge.
Continue to practice and train, please stay safe and have a great evening.
I use overpenetration in the general concept that the round will go further than intended, it doesn’t matter if it hits what you intended to hit first. The problem you will face in a self-defense scenario is that your assailant is not picking the direction of their attack with the thought of keeping those behind them safe. And so you may at some point be left with the choice of letting them successfully use deadly force against you or a loved one, or discharging your firearm in a direction that potentially puts others at risk.
I will venture that the vast majority of self-defense firearms discharge including, and perhaps particularly, those by law enforcement, occurs without a safe backstop. You will try to exert influence on the situation to your advantage (including not having to fire in a risky direction), but the assailant has (in most cases) a bigger voice in dictating the conditions under which you may need to defend yourself. A round exiting my house in any direction will not hit another structure and will not likely even exit my property. But a round exiting the walls of my apartment would hit the walls of another apartment. The only choice, short of deciding not to defend yourself, is to minimize the chance of penetrating walls (and particularly multiple walls). Gummy Bears are certainly a good way to minimize penetration, but I still wouldn’t point a gun loaded with them in anything other than an ironclad safe direction unless forced to defend myself. BTW, the same goes for blanks (which have been know to kill at short range), or an unloaded gun for that matter.
We have been taught that it is “always” necessary to know what is down range before discharging a firearm or arrow I would say. so no one is suggesting anyone use their Barrett 50 cal to take out an intruder in line with your family. what is being suggested is using a round that used as intended will not exit the target and hit someone twenty feet behind it.
In the Concealed carry magazine we often read about the home defense rounds and will get information on the FBI suggested penetration guide. A FMJ 45 quite possibly would enter and exit a invader if it isn’t stopped by bone. However partially jacketed Hollow point more than likely will stop the person without putting a dent in the refrigerator as well. I understand a FMJ 9MM will quite possibly will exit the suspect. So for home defense FMJ isn’t recommended. and either hollow points or frangible rounds are. But you could miss and a round could go through the wall. That is a consideration everyone of us has to deal with if, heaven forbid, we are in the position to have to pull the trigger. Even hunters have to know what is behind the animal they plan on harvesting So round penetration is only one consideration a person must take into consideration if they are going to use a firearm for self defense. But I have discovered there are no guarantees in this world and people miss and even in officer involved shooting sometime people that shouldn’t get shot do get shot. All we can do is limit the chances of that happening, by training, and ammo and weapon choices. Then again you can avoid the question all together by not taking the chance at all. However that has it’s risks as well. But you are right @Greg35 I wouldn’t even want to shoot at my son with gummy bears. They might catch on fire and burn him. Not a counter point as much as a continuation.
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@Robert5 / @Harold26
I get it. It all exists on a gradient with no absolutes (other than it’s absolutely certain that the wife will be really really pissed if flaming gummys stick to the walls!!!). My not so well expressed point, due to being buried behind sarcasm, comes from the focus of a discussion that concludes along the lines of “ok #4 shot is best for a shotgun in an apartment because it won’t over penetrate”. Because any pellet that doesnt meet flesh or bone will still pass through drywall and you will own where it stops. We need to be careful not to propagate a sense of “safe to defend towards the neighbors apartment with #4, just not 00”.
While we dont control an assailant’s direction of attack, it’s probably safe to expect they will come through a door,window, or hallway before they come through a wall. We do control how we arrange furniture and where we put the couch, TV, bed, or bookshelf full of conceal carry and precision shooting magazines (aka backstop).
Anyway, I’m probably being a bit of a hypocrite because I live in a rural area, my kids are all out of the house, and my nightstand gun is loaded with .357 extreme penetrators. Personally, I like the idea of a 3" wound channel almost instantaneously upon entry and doing the same to the guy behind him if they are stacked up in the hallway. If there is only one, then it can go through the wall some 40’ down the hall and come to rest in the freezer/fridge on the other side.
. I get what you are saying. And my comments were more based on my old home rather than my new one. Now there are fewer entry points and the person I bought this place from loved dead bolt locks and alarms that can be set.
I am just responding to what we as members of this community have to think of.
Now that being said sometimes those thoughts go out the door as I day dream about a new weapon. I have had the chance to shoot a desert Eagle in 44 mag and thought, I have to have one of these. You never know if Sasquatch might come through the front door and try to take my Jack’s Links. I thought the same thing about a 454 Casull. But I didN’t think my wife would believe we had raging Rinos roaming the soccer field out front.
I live in a suburb maybe ten minutes from a pretty rural area and their defense choices are a lot different than mine.
Still for EDC I consider the penetration of rounds in my weapon based on the idea that I might be in an area with a few people when I have to defend my self or loved one.
We aren’t in disagreement.
@Craig6 I have not used the mini-shells but my local shop had a sign up mentioning that you wanted a insert if you were going to use them without feed issues.