Put your $$ into a .410 or 20-gauge pump shotgun for home defense - the .223 Remington is a pissant varmint round that was chosen by the military for specific reasons - now they’re looking at the 6.5 Creedmoor for an upgrade - I’m in favor of the 7mm-'08 Remington - it’s a flat-shooter, and hits like a freight train. Choose a shotgun for the home - at close range, and with the defense loads - particularly for the .410, now - it’s an absolutely devastating alternative to a handgun or rifle. And if you get one for a live-in girlfriend or your wife, start at youth models, and get one specifically tailored and set up for HER - you’re betting your lives on the choices and results!
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I don’t know about all of that. I would think, a 223/5.56, 44mag, or the like at close range are probably pretty effective.
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Respectfully sir, my 77 grain, soft point .223 rounds are more than adequate for home defense. As are my 55 grain, Hornady Critical Defense rounds. I have my trusty Remington 870 12 gauge loaded up with #1 buck as well. My wife is rocking a pistol caliber carbine in 9mm with +P, 124 grain Speer Gold Dots. It is the Ruger PC carbine. It has very little recoil and holds 17 rounds.
Still, your point stands regarding modern 20 gauge and even maybe the .410 self-defense loads. They have came a long way in recent years with the .410.
I have seen a whole bunch of dead bad guys from the 5.56 NATO round. The performance numbers from modern .223 rounds are hardly different from the 5.56 these days.
The Army is basing it’s new rifle around a high-pressure 6.8mm round, not the 6.5 Creedmoor. The civilian near equivalent is the .277 Sig Fury. It is a significant upgrade in power, range, and hopefully will defeat enemy body armor with greater effect.
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My Wife’s 20 gauge is a youth model 870 that I have extended out to 11 rounds. It looks kinda morphydite with a 20-inch barrel and mag tube sticking 6 inches further out. It is full of #4 lead with a 6-shot carrier on the left side (also #4 lead) and a 6-shot cuff on the right side of the stock full of Remington AccuTip slugs.
My HD Shotty is a Remington 870 Tactical 12 gauge with the one piece 6-shot magazine - not with an extension. I also have a 6-shot carrier on the left side and a 6-shot cuff on the stock. Everything is 00 buck.
I do not own anything in an AR platform. Just does not fit my defense plan.
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I agree that a .410 bore or 20 gauge shotgun would make a good HD gun. I would recommend the 20 gauge since .410 ammo is often hard to find. However, I would maintain that a .223 / 5.56 is very effective for HD. Greater ammo capacity than a shotgun, and ballistics are more than adequate. Also less recoil. To me, the major drawbacks to any long gun in the house are the length/size, and then need for 2 hands to operate. I prefer a full size handgun as my primary HD weapon, but have a shotgun staged in the safe as a backup.
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Kurt0ne-Seven,
To my mind I say ‘Whatever works for you’
Some Love this or that weapon, shooters prerogative.
My go to rifle is a Bullpup (Hellion)
My shotgun (in my house) is a (2) round Coach gun
My truck gun is a (5) round Winchester
(same,same as BruceE w/ both xtra carrier/cuff) also all 00buck)
My handgun is an XD Elite or Stainless 686…
Whatever worx Brother
Just be comfortable w/ what you choose
train like your life depends on it, because it will.
Good Luck,
buckle Up
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I didn’t say the .223 wouldn’t KILL - I just don’t have any regard for it - I’m saying that a shotgun will give you the most “pop” in a home-defense situation, especially with some of the buckshot loads they have today. Instead of one bullet, you’re launching multiple projectiles, and with as much or more force than a .223, stopping the threat immediately. Consider the possibility of a shoot-through with an AR, also.
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Hmmm not much spread in a normal sized hallway & still have to aim. Reloads are a problem for most. Still not a horrible choice. SBR always a good choice…
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Any projectile that is considered adequate for self defense also has a risk of penetrating inside / outside walls. From what I’ve researched, 5.56 , 9mmJHP, and 00 buckshot will all fire through multiple walls. #4 buckshot is maybe the best compromise. I’ve also seen information about 55 grain 5.56 rounds “tumbling” and losing velocity quickly, but I’m still not keen on using my AR inside my house, when I have other options.
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From the reliable tests I have seen 00 buck and slugs will over penetrate more than many if not most .223/5.56 options. Even 9mm tends to go through slightly more wall layers than .223/5.56. Plus there are some .223/5.56 options that are designed to decrease the risk of over penetration through bodies and walls while still providing adequate stopping power.
I have heard from some shotgun self defense aficionados that they don’t like using buckshot in their homes because of its tendency to deflect off 2x4s in random directions. They prefer slugs even though they will easily go through walls. They are more confident that the slugs will keep going in the direction they were aiming.
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The problem with all long guns is----they’re long!
A handgun is easier to secure, easier to conceal, easier to keep close at hand and easier to deploy in confined spaces and often quicker to deploy.
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as for reloading a shot gun the only one that works well is the Ithaca 37
under pressure the finger used for loading shells gets hung up in the flat ramp.
the mod 37 uses two rods one on each side of the action so the finger does not get hung up
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Remember that my original post dealt with .410 and 20-gauge guns - a 12- or 10- is too much for in-home defense - you might as well use a .357 or a 10mm for a car-gun - the obsession with “magnumania” in this country is ridiculous. Lesser calibers and gauges will perform well, given the high-performance SD ammo makers still continue to develop - look at loads Hornady, Winchester, and Federal have brought out.
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I live in a duplex. I have to worry about the little old lady on the other side.
My P-07 and a spare mag of .40 S&W is always ready to go. 12 guage with 6 rounds of 00 buck stands ready. Both have lights, and the pistol has a laser, shotty has a red dot.
I live in a "safe neighborhood. Am I worried… Not really. Am I ready? Heck yeah
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There are different guns and calibers for the same reason there are different automobiles, and different tools in a toolbox. It depends on who you are, what you are doing, where you are doing it, and so on.
If you look at the entire body of information regarding shotguns and their use in self-defense, they are not always ideal, they don’t always do what people think they do, and they are not as safe, and aim free, as they are often thought to be in a home defense situation.
Shotguns often rise to the top of the choice list for certain people in certain situations, and if that person is also proficient in ammunition choices, the versatility can be maximized to achieve many desirable results.
My personal conclusion, after much research and range tests, was that a well equipped long gun in a suitable caliber, (9.mm, 300 BLK, 223/556.etc), operated in a trained manner, was likely to be the safest and most effective option under the largest scope of foreseeable scenarios. And yet, the reality is that a properly staged long gun is still likely to be one or two room away when the self-defense moment arrives, so a “carried at home” CCW remained the most reliable, “at hand when the moment and place of need arises”, first line of defense, backed up by the staged long gun, which by the way, could also have been a shotgun if my situation made it the best choice.
Sometimes I think the question could be put this way: Which right choice is the most right for you?
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I completely agree with this statement. We all have our CCW’s, EDC’s, Always With Me hand cannons and they are all right there within easy reach of our strong hands. Those are the weapons we train the most with so they should be our “go to” weapons when that moment arrives.
In one training class I took several years ago, the instructor broke the weapons need for a home defense situation down in simple terms:
Use your handgun to fight your way to your long gun.
Use your long gun to fight and collect your loved ones into your fallback position.
Use your shotgun as artillery to defend that fallback position until the threat has been neutralized or the cavalry (LE) arrives.
That is my plan, anyway.
@KURT17 - I agree and disagree. I am a very strong supporter of the Home Defense Fighting Shotgun. For overall, single shot damage from a “standard” home defense type weapon, the shotgun will do the most damage, hands down. Unless someone is using a .50BMG or something larger for home defense, a 12-gauge loaded with #4 lead or larger has no equal in the biggest hole category. Creepy Uncle Joe said buy a shotgun, well, I got one, Joe. Actually three.
BUT, even with that distinction, my favorite artillery round will not stop all threats immediately. Do the research yourself. Do not take my word for it. There are numerous cases documented by FBI and local law enforcement where multiple 12-gauge rounds were required to stop the threat. The same goes for all the common AR calibers, all the common handgun calibers. Not even the tried and true, won two world wars .45ACP can give you immediate and garuanteed single shot stopping ability in every situation. That is why we have magazines capable of carrying multiple rounds. My HD Shotty is capable of carrying 19 rounds: 6 in the tube, 6 left, 6 right and 1 in the pipe.
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AR style firearm in 5.56x45 all the way.
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Make my shotgun a 12 gauge with buckshot, for home defense, if I have to reach for a shotgun.
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When the folks above state #4 lead is this # 4 buck or just #4 shot?
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