Self-defense against a dog

Self-Defense Home Defense
41

You’re right, knowing your laws is very important. Murder is illegal, self-defense isn’t. If you’re defending yourself against a lethal threat (which a dog attack may very well be) and can articulate why you did what you did, it could easily be considered self-defense.

Most animal cruelty laws make it a crime to kill or injure animals “unnecessarily” or “without justification.” The most obvious justification is self-defense or defending another person from harm. That doesn’t necessarily mean, however, that you can shoot a dog just because it’s growling or barking at you or it has bitten someone in the past. The general rule most courts follow: You must believe it’s necessary to kill or injure the animal in order to prevent an immediate threat of serious injury—and that belief must be reasonable. (See, for example, Grizzle v. State , 707 P.2d 1210 (Okla. Crim. App. 1985).) Some states, like Georgia, have explicitly included this rule in their laws (Ga. Code Ann. § 16-12-40).

Understanding your state laws is very important, but remember there are a lot of nuances to how laws are interpreted. I would suggest anyone with serious concerns about dog attacks talk to a local self-defense attorney for clarification on the laws in their state.

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42

It goes beyond the animal cruelty laws to reckless endangerment and unlawful discharge of a firearm.

If you get an animal rights activist prosecutor, judge, or jury even if you’re absolutely in the right morally you sill may well end up convicted.

As such you have to think ahead and make up your mind if it’s worth it.

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43

A better question is “Is a shot possible”? When I was 7 years old I was attacked by a German Shepard. We were visiting friends of my parents and I went out in their backyard to retrieve my shoes. It was dark, I was a stranger in that yard and probably a lot of other factors caused the next door neighbors dog to go after me.

I never heard or saw that dog before it hit me and it never let me go once the attack started. The dog bit me in the side of the head somehow missing my eye, and ripped open my shoulder and was shaking and dragging me around. I was helpless against it, but my parents recognized my voice screaming in the backyard even though they were in the house. Mom arrived first and dove into the fight, she got bit on the arm, but got between me and the dog. Dad and one other were close behind and dove in and drove the dog off but were not bit. My head, neck, and shoulder were quickly wrapped in bathroom towels and I was rushed to the ER for stitches, staples and who knows what else. I spent the next 10 days nervously awaiting the results of the rabies test, thinking about getting shots in the stomach. The test came back negative, thank God.

I can tell you in the dark, with the dog in close contact there would have been no way a shot could have been safe. Pepper spray seems like it would be useful to prevent an attack but there is no way you could use it during the attack and only target the dog. From personal experience if you have to intervene in a dog attack you will need to jump in risking getting bit yourself and kick and punch till you drive that dog off.

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44

I’m so glad your parents were there to get the dog off you, @Greg1! That must have been terrifying!

A shot at that close of quarters would be incredibly difficult especially with the movement. I have a German Shepherd who just turned one. I’ve seen what Chewie can do to a toy - stuffed toy and hard chew toy. Yet she is incredibly gentle, timid even, around my one year old granddaughter.

I’ve got two of the “scariest” dogs on the scary dog list. They are well trained and are like family. I trust them around my granddaughter. They put up with all of her poking and prodding with a lick and a nuzzle. We keep an eye on them because they are still animals and can react differently to different stimuli - and we want to keep them safe. But if they were sick or in pain, I’d be extremely cautious with them as they are animals and can be dangerous.

I do believe they’d fight to keep my granddaughter safe, so we make sure they’re never put in that position. Now if someone breaks into my home when my granddaughter is around… that’s on the criminal, not the dogs.

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45

@Dawn I have had dogs my whole life and until that moment I never thought one would hurt me. As dog owners we have to be careful of the positions that we put them in like you mentioned. I never saw that dog while I was playing in the yard during the day, and then I wandered into its territory in the dark nothing good was going to come of that.

Regardless if it was a mean dog or a lap dog an hour ago, if it is attacking someone you care about you need to be prepared to wade into that fight and take some damage.

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46

I’ve been playing fetch with the dogs and got between the ball and the dogs teeth and got bit - through no fault of the dog. It didn’t feel too good and as soon as I yelped, the dog backed off and you could see he felt bad. BUT, that was play.

I know my dogs are strong and I don’t want them cornered or threatened, but I will do what I need to do to protect my family. The dogs know that and I hope it never comes to them becoming that upset/aggressive.

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47

My neighbor is an ex police canine officer who owns two German shepherds one a personal pet and the other an ex police dog (They are both off the force now for unscrupulous actions). While walking down my sidewalk beside my house and across the street from the neighbor who had one of the dogs out, not on a leash, the dog decided to attack me! As it rushed toward me my neighbor was yelling a command for the dog to stop (I think)… I took a stance and offered my left arm to the dog with the intention of feeding it my arm, grabbing it by the throat and throwing all my weight on it, the best I could do. I was unarmed! Just as the dog was about to leap at me, it heard and obeyed the command to stop. I stood there looking at my neighbor as he took the dog inside. If the dog had attacked me I would have been injured badly but I feel confident that the dog would have been killed. Pepper spray may not have deterred this attack and there was little time to react regardless. Nothing else was said or done except now I carry a knife, a legally concealed firearm, and am of the mindset that I will not offer my arm if there is ever a next time. Any law that would prosecute you for defending yourself from an attack is a flawed law. I would rather argue that point in court then to get reconstruction surgery as a result of any dog attack.

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48

This is one thing I wish would go away. Pit Bulls are no more dangerous, than any other breed. Their owners weaponize them through purpose or accident. Or their breeders in breeds them. I absolutely abhor this idea that Pit Bulls are some vicious animal waiting to attack.

I have never met a single solitary bad Pit. Had some been abused and turned into pit fighting dogs, but even those were salvageable.

I can’t even count how many Pits I’ve rescued. Every single one of them, Pit fighter, bait dog or just feral. They all turned out magnificent.

I’ve been doing dog rescue for 30 years. Did rescue through Katrina, Irene, California wild fires. We took in alot of the Pits from Pitbulls and Parolees during Katrina.

It’s not a bad dog, it’s one that due to its characteristics makes an excellent pit fight dog.

Yes, I know there going to be “But this one Pit”,

But whatever Pit, probably has some issues that come from its owner or breeder.

I’ve had Pits I had to handle with shark armored gloves for months, but once you get through to them and they feel safe, you will see a dog that just wants to love and be loved. Maybe a lap or 12 too.

I’m not going to change people’s opinion on Pits, but my opinion isn’t going to change. I think any dog is salvageable. I’ve done it to many times. I refuse to give up on an abused dog.

P.S. Yes I put my money where my mouth is. Once I take a dog for foster or to train they stay mine until they can pass canine good citizen at a minimum. I’ve had people want to rush my training and I just tell them I’m not done yet.

Every Pit I send out into the world is an ambassador for other Pits so someone else may want to give the next Pit a chance.

Secret :chipmunk: edit:Never met a bad dog. Met alot of terrible owners/breeders. But no bad dogs.

YMMV

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49

image Now that it’s legal in Texas, I carry a sap as a possible less than lethal self defense weapon. I say possible because one still must be careful where you are striking and how. It’s solid enough that if you were to strike the animal on the head they’d definitely feel it. Of course it’s last resort and a close impact weapon so your mileage may vary when determining if that’s a suitable option for you.

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51

There ain’t no “punching the dog in the face” if it’s a pit bull or other (considered) aggressive breed on the attack. Trust me; if need be I’ll show you the 4”x4” missing chunk of what once was muscle, the six inch scar on the other side of my arm and hospital bills from nine days and four surgeries from the dog that attacked me with zero- I repeat zero- warning. Happily it was my arm and not my throat. Lesson learned: Never, ever 100% trust any large breed, especially your sweet, loving, thinks he’s a lap dog Pit Bull. (And it really wasn’t his fault-he’s a dog- and it was some very unusual circumstances involving another aggressive dog.) I’m not bitter or angry-just wiser. And love my four dogs and that cute little cat even more.
So word from the wise: If you think you can defend from an attacking (considered aggressive breed) dog- without using deadly force in that deadly force /disparity of force situation - you’re a “ dreamer and a silly heart” (John Candy-‘Uncle Bud’.)

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52

I just CC a ‘attack dog’.

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:grin:

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53

If a chihuahua was biting my ankle and hurting me, my reaction might be to send the dog into outer space. Nobody can account for the split second reaction when being hurt. So train your dogs to keep them and others safe! I admit, I failed with my boy and have to keep him leashed when people are around or he could knock them over and lick them to death.

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54

I am going through the trials and tribulations of a new puppy with more energy than the Energizer Bunny. It’s a “Fiberian Hufky”(Meme there) and Malamute. It’s 90* Husky and the legs of the Malamute. The dog likes to jump and I don’t like being jumped on. That ended one day when she jumped and I slammed a closed hand down on top of her grape. Of course that same day (OK within minutes of bopping her) I flipped her on her back and held her down legs up until she quit struggling. Lesson from raising a Norwegian Elk-hound there. Become the Apha Male just once. Now when I come home she is just as exceted to see me as any one else but she goes straight to her back for a belly rub. My poor wife gets jumped on and can’t figure out why as does the owner and his girl. My youngest son figured it out and he gets the same reception I do but I don’t think he bopped her, he wrapped her up and took her to the ground till she submitted but it cost him a few claw marks that were pretty deep. With pack type animals Macho is not Machismo but dominance must be initiated, the younger the better or else you will pay for an animal that thinks it is in charge. I did the “Awe it’s a puppy.” thing for a year with my Elkhound the effect of establishing an Alpha presence cannot be overstated with a pack animal.

Not a dog trainer, didn’t stay in a Motel 6 just making observations based on experience.

Cheers,

Craig6

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55

I’ve done that with every Husky I’ve ever owned and then put a cat on its tummy just to set pack dynamics. I’ve had dozens of Siberian Huskies.

It actually works.

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56

As a extremely animal friendly person/home, I would not shoot a dog if I didn’t have to. I have had to fight a dog to protect my dog but if it came down to it, I would shoot the enemy dog. My problem with it, is that 99.0% of dog aggression is a result of the owner not training their dog properly. (mental behavioral training and not just tricks). Hell, my wife and I find lost dogs as a hobby lol. We find lost dogs quite frequently and go out if one is reported lost in our area. This year alone, I have returned 15 dogs to their homes that had gotten out. Even dogs who were iffy on attitude. Many people miss interpret a dogs action as aggression or they trigger it themselves and do not realize they did it and the dog was only reacting.

I have had people threaten my dog and call him aggressive and a danger while he was laying in the grass doing absolutely nothing. (by the way my boy is trained and get be put in a room full of children and not hurt anyone except maybe knocking them down by walking lol). Another time a kid asked to pet my dog and his mother grabbed him and said “that dog is a killer and will bite your face off, get away from them” causing that child now to fear my dog and the kid is still terrified of my dog. I had another kid(12 ish) throw and hit my dog with a rock so my dog then barked at the kid. The kids father proceeded to tell me that if I didn’t control my dog, he would kill it. Well, I placed my hand on my firearm(not brandishing in my state) and told him that would be a mistake and he needs to control his child. (mind you my dog never rushed the kid or anything but barked because he was hit with a rock and also ran back to me for protection).

I understand that a dog can attack an innocent person but it is still generally the owners fault for not meeting the needs/instincts of the animal. Your dog is not Lulu the best friend… She is a dog who needs all needs met on an animal level. After that, the dog is now a breed and needs specific needs met. Then the dog is a personality. This personality is what most animal owners treat the dog as but this is what can cause aggression through insecurity. If you have to defend yourself, then you must and I would. I just wish the average person took time to educate themselves on dog behavior/Psychology.
PS: I also wish to become a dog trainer but don’t have the money to pursue that at the same time as firearm instructor certifications right now.

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57

Mine too! She wouldn’t bite anyone, but she’s “scary” looking :smiley:

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58

I love dogs, mine are family members and are friendly and loving. However you state " Pit Bulls are no more dangerous, than any other breed". You are incorrect espically if they were bread for fighting. The increased danger is with an actual bite. An animal control officer explained to me, there are basically three types of bites. Some dogs like Dobermans (and little ankle biter dogs) are basically known for tearing types of bites (you will probably need stiches). Other dogs like Shepards and Malnois are known for puncture wounds and holding on with some tearing (espically if you move while being bitten or when trying to get away). The danger with bites common with Pit Bulls is the way they lock their powerfull jaws when biting. The effects from a Pit Bull bite are commonly assocated with Broken Bones. Dont get me wrong all dog bites are dangerous but Yes Pit Bulls IMHO are definately much more dangerous do to the damage they can do when biting.

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59

Using that logic, the larger a dog is… the more dangerous it is. Which is more dangerous a 35lb PitBull or a 100lb Rottweiler? Is it still the breed?

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60

I do not know if I mispoke, I was just repeating what an animal control supervisor advised. There basically are different types of bites they come accross, basic tearing, basic punctures and dogs with the leverage in their jaws to crush bones. I was not refering to the size of any dogs. I do believe however that the larger the dog, the better the potential there is for each of the different styles of bites to do more damage. I guess what I am saying is even though you could get torn up bad no matter what size the dog was, you would probably (PROBOBLY IMO) have a worse bite from Doberman size than a Shihtzu size dog. However the potential for a more serious injury would probably come from a dog that has the type of compound leverage in their jaws when they bite.

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61

Thank goodness we have FDE:

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And Desert Camo:

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they might be mistaken for Pitties due to their color (not as big chested, but close in size), and the main reason they would be running at you is to love on you all that much sooner.

My sister does have 2 rescued Pitties, and they are the sweetest dogs I have ever met. Every time I see them, I have to go through a 10 minute face wash.

My Fiance also refers to Pitties as the Nanny dog.

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