I put myself in the driver’s seat of that car in your scenario. I was fully engaged in your mental exercise. Now you’re questioning my intelligence by rolling up my window? If you’re a member of USCCA, you should have access to the Protector Academy videos like the rest of us do.
One of the scenarios featured depicts a road rage incident where the victim is verbally accosted and his vehicle is pounded on by the aggressor. The “good guy” in that video scenario rolls up his window and dials 911. I guess that also must be an insult to the intelligence of the USCCA Staff and Attorneys that produce, act in and deconstruct these videos for us too.
If that’s the case Rick, I’ll stand with them with regard to my response to your scenario. I’m not too proud to roll up a window, dial 911 and go home at the end of the day because I chose not to draw a firearm.
@Rick73,
Did you get the responses you wanted to hear after you edited the scenario? I read some of the responses that others posted and their answers seemed pretty legitimate to me before you changed the scenario. I’m sure you would’ve gotten different responses to the second part. Changing the scenario afterwards as you can see will cause friction in a forum where we should be learning from one another. It is no longer a discussion it is more like an argument now. You could’ve started another topic instead and use your second scenario. Keep it simple and be blessed.
Well, I was hoping for a discussion. A “discussion” IMO demands two-way ongoing communication and thus the edit. This was not meant as a test to find “The” answer. I was looking for what would a responsible person ask themselves as this event unfolded. The decision-making process would/should include “if-then” questions and answers which were largely not offered by the replies.
Editing the scenario after a bunch of people have responded isn’t the best option, I will definitely give you that. But, self-defense scenarios are always evolving, so this could also be a good way to look at it.
And we all can phrase things better in online conversations (including me) where we don’t know the other people and they don’t know us or our intentions when we post something.
To bring us back on topic, I love how @George98 thought about it:
A lot of us are “old hats” at these types of scenarios, but there are always new people coming into the conversation who may have no idea that they should always leave space to get out when stopped at a light. Some of us get complacent or preoccupied with life and don’t always practice that. “Obvious” situations might not be obvious to everyone.
We’re all here to help each other learn. Jumping to conclusions or having a knee-jerk reaction can get us in hot water when we’re carrying, so we try to avoid it in the real world. I would suggest that it is also something we should all try to do online - as our online conversations will also be used in the real world if we ever have to legally defend our physical self-defense actions.
Instead of changing the original question, @Rick73, try follow-up questions or explanation post if there is some confusion in the answers.
wait… did your son know the driver with the dashcam? Did he step out after the agressor calmed down and spoke with the driver? Not sure the latter would not be seen as resuming confrontation.
Value of the property is irrelevant. Disparity of force and actual/implied/perceived intent matter. A fist can and has killed, even young physically fit men have been killed by fists. Mere yelling and/or pounding on one’s vehicle does not rise to the level of lethal use of force. Breaking the window and dragging one out of the vehicle could possibly become a situation where use of lethal force is reasonable, and we know we will be held accountable for any actions we take.
However, we are not seeking violence nor to harm anyone, but to defend family and self from harm. Typically the best defense is to not get into the situation to begin with. Keeping one’s windows closed, leaving room to maneuver, and being aware of one’s enviroment, are helpful in avoiding the bad situation. It may not always be possible to avoid, but more likely than not, it does.
We are all well-aware that any confrontation can lead to a bad outcome, even if our actions are “justified”. No one wants to pay an attorney thousands or more dollars, possible jail time, loss of work, etc., etc., so one’s actions must be to avoid/de-escalate conflict as best as possible. Many state laws are quite strict regarding firearms, especially if you are in a conflict and carrying. Even if it is not displayed, you could still be charged with a crime while armed. Practicing situational awareness works to avoid these bad scenarios.
I’ve been waiting to say this…this seems like a good case in point.
We shouldn’t be looking for opportunities to justify using our firearm. First and foremost, we should be looking for ways to NEVER use them by avoiding trouble and evading if we find ourselves in the middle of it. Just because we have a weapon doesn’t mean we should want to use it.
A car, a dog, a house, a wallet, regardless of value or contents, is not worth a human life - not even a perpetrator’s life.
Point a deadly weapon at me, threaten to kill me, or my wife, or my kids, or an innocent, and that’s a whole different story. Other than that, I’ll keep it in the holster, thank you very much.
Using the original OP where you have been punched in the side of the head. (side note, I often drive a classic corvette convertible, top down 10 mo. out of the year. Rolling windows up not much help, no hands free phone, etc.) anyway, you already know you are dealing with a violent person. We read often about car jackings where driver is beaten and or shot. While I agree property is not worth taking a life It is my opinion that attacking you in your home, your business, your vehicle is past the property question and you are in direct fear for your life. It is the bases of the Castle Doctrine. Even trying to exit your car in compliance might get you slammed between door and vehicle, , beaten, or shot.
There is pretty much nothing good about using deadly force except survival. I don’t trust a violent scumbag to make that decision for me.
My phone is linked to my truck via a button on my steering wheel. All it takes is a button push and “call 911”. Connection being made, someone will be listening. I always leave at least a truck length and a half between me and the nearest vehicle in front of me to give me room to evade a possible rear-ender. I this situation, if I can get control of the assailants arm inside the vehicle, a quick jolt forward should put pressure on the offending appendage and upset his balance enough to put him on the ground and/or allow time for me to get out of Dodge. If my window is up, control of the appendage becomes unnecessary. Executing my escape plan and route then becomes my priority.
In my world this stops some fool from clocking me, & perhaps saving some pain &/or a trip to the hospital .seen enough fighting when I was young. Perhaps perp will move on to someone else. There is little thought of what happens should fool get in my vehicle. Oh & on your edit, Honda hahaha really?
