In once one of the few remaining bastions of conservatism in the state?
Wow, the world is upside down!
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I would say for anyone living in one of the states where this is law; don’t keep all your eggs in one basket. They can’t take what they can’t find. I read about a case in Washington State where the man refused to give up his fire arms. They threatened him with taking minors out of the house if he didn’t comply. I don’t know what ever happened. I do know it wasn’t the father who they are looking at but the son. Seems someone got wind at school that the kid had access to fire arms at home and some one made a complaint about that. The kid never threatened anyone with violence otherwise they could have arrested him for that. What do you do when the govt is breaking the law by going against our second amendment rights? After that point I don’t care what they say, but that’s just me.
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As current red flag laws in several states are written, I am opposed to them simply because they violate due process. Preemptively taking away a right, let alone someone’s property, goes against innocent until proven guilty. Laws will not prevent tragedies because the very nature of a law is to punish after the fact, not prevent a crime.
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Red Flag laws violate the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 14th amendments.
https://www.thelibertyden.com/single-post/2019/04/01/Red-Flag-Laws
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Also, some people assume that the government can protect them 100% from violence if we relinquish enough of our freedoms. This is flawed logic as nothing is ever 100% preventable. The best chance someone has at not becoming a victim is the ability to protect themselves. Even this is not 100% but again, nothing is.
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I was the original member that posted this thread. What I expected would happen, happened. Colorado has some of the most impatient drivers ever. I’ve lived all over this country and never experience this type of behavior. Recently moved my perm residence from Houston, TX. to Colorado.
A driver was upset that he wasn’t able to squeeze his way into traffic instead of waiting his turn. Upset at my wife and I after we passed him he began yelling out racist remarks calling us N word and yelling at us from behind at the stop light. Of course we ignored him and there is no hate crime in American for calling people racial names and flat out harassing Black and Native People of color. Minorities have no right to call the Police on such people. Normally we have our windows rolled to stay discrete b/c of racial profiling by law enforcement or plain hatred. We dealt this type of treatment in the past just how it is. proof of every action from 80’s to 2018 was out last. Welcome to American when it comes to Black and Native People. Anyways we needed to stop for gas ended up pulling into gas station we needed gas. I noticed this guy followed us into parking lot of gas station. So informed my wife the plan and make sure to be ready for anything. She’s CCW and I open carry; Colorado is open carry state. Instead of keeping my entire family in the car alone. My wife got my 8 year old son and I got my 18 month old daughter. This person sat in his vehicle looking my at family, apparently he noticed were both armed open carrying on my hips holstered. Plus in the car I put on adding my battle fully ready for whatever. Guess since this racist dude lost his leverage; he contacted the Police and lied that we pulled a gun on him in traffic. Typical lies these type of people calling police on Black People… When we got into the convenient market my wife contacted the Police to inform there “WE” as a family are facing racial discrimination and harassment incident at the moment. Explained everyone to 911 gave him a description what were wearing and we’re armed for protection. They understood and appreciated us calling in case something happen Police will know who we are in case were forced to protect ourselves. Ultimately since the racist idiot driver contacted the Police first we still had to answer to Police. Even though it was the same incident at the same address. Issue took over 45 mins to explain and show 2 separate dash cam footage as well as inside footage with Audio and Video all recorded. My sunglasses have 30 mins of recording footage that would have been a 3rd Option if needed. Moral of the story if we we didn’t have our butts covered and double covered didn’t black people would have been JAILED b/c these cops wanted to throw us in jail so bad you could feel it but they have to follow the law. We attorney, my wife and I are filing a law suit and filing official complaint to NACCP, Mayor’s Office, State of Colorado and Justice Department for Racial Profiling all b/c these cops were believing these people over us. I gave the Police Officers my attorney business card and my USCCA membership card and gave them that look like… Wanna cost the city and state some money b/c of your hatred to Black People go ahead. As a trained individual with Military De-Escalation training and Prior Law Enforcement experience I know every tricks they try to pull. Moral of story I learned a lot of this posted b/c we don’t have the same rights and the caller was never questioned like we were even when multiple footage was shown… These cops would’ve lied to used probably still can b/c Police know about the RED FLAG Law in Colorado is in Effect…
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In Indiana we have the red flag.
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@Larry4 This is our reality we live in nowadays. It’s far better to keep your mouth shut, no eye contact, see nothing, hear nothing, say nothing, in 2019 America.
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I’m sure if the government is involved it will turn out bad for freedom. Sooner or later we will have to fight for freedom once again. Sooner i suspect.
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I’m sorry you had to experience this, @rwsisson!
Unfortunately, I’ve heard similar experiences from people of every ethnicity. The old adage is the first contact the police are the first to be believed. That has nothing to do with color.
There has always been hatred and it definitely is not fair. However, we must set the example and take the high road - as difficult as it may be.
And while I know that bad officers do exist, all officers have to follow up on 911 calls and there will most-likely be conflicting information. That is why we suggest being the first to call the police in self-defense situations.
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Appreciate the feedback. Makes a lot of sense it really does. This incident was a strange one. In all honesty we never felt like our lives were at risk; hatred isn’t taken seriously in this country but they will soon take it seriously very soon. I begin to describe how times I’ve been told go back to africa and called a N&(@. Utlimately we as black people can’t call the police that those type of people. Its hurtful and flat out makes you sick to your stomach being called N&( or whatever racial slurs or go back to Africa etc… Yes I seen him behind us but technically that’s not a crime cars following others cars in traffic. Name calling is not against the law it’s considered the 1st Amendment but we all know its considered hate speech. If I had called, I would ahve been told what Crime and i reported? That would not fly. The Police told me themselves if I would have called there was no crime to report. An action I clearly already knew. It was not a concern until this person decided to pull into the same parking lot and decided to stay in his vehicle. Police Officers’ Supervisor told us it was wise to get your family out of harms way into safety then contact the us; contacting the 911 Police. The way were trained get to a safe place first then contact the Police. In a non trusting society I’m not putting my family in danger like sitting ducks just to contact the Police. Clearly I was able to flee to safety; Say if I needed to do what we all don’t like to think about is defend my family; In a court of law if I needed to share a testimony still would have proven I had time to get myself and my family to safety FIRST. Colorado has open carry laws outside the City of Denver and legislation needs to changed since many have abuse the system by using the Police as leverage for their sickening self-gratification puts peoples lives in danger. People are using the system to satisfy there pride and ego to win an argue or incident flat out sickening concepts that Police believe…
But normally I would contact the Police immediately; but I was driving which is against the law talking on the cell phone while driving at the same time with windows rolled was an unwise to pull over to make a call were stuck in a hard place. But people should always request to speak to supervisor… That’s your right… I always do for my safety unfortunately truth my people, my family and majority of Native/Black People don’t trust LEO’s right now…
Honestly I was never challenged Officers at any rate I realize the protocol all officers have to follow up on 911 calls and more and more Police Agency are realizing SWATTING and Calling Police placing false reports is becoming more and more common is causing agencies a lot of resources and wasting Tax Dollars. Shooo Tom Cruise’s house was a victim of SWATTING. Researching on YouTube has a whole story that the News covered and speaking to LEO’s about there concerns also for their officers too. The USCCA Family and Members should be aware since we’re the law Bidding Citizens carrying guns and weaponss as protection for ourselves and families. Just wanted to share my experience and what to be aware of…
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I understand the appeal of Red Flag laws. They sound reasonable. Injustice ALWAYS sounds reasonable if you explain it properly.
But the Due Process violations these always entail aside, you will never convince me that criminals won’t use this law. If they want to get you, they just report you anonymously or pay someone else to report you. Then when the government comes and takes your guns, they suddenly don’t have to worry about you being able to defend yourself when they come for you.
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@rwsisson it sucks not to be treated as who you are but as who people want to think you are.
We’ve been on the receiving side of being SWATed (really aggressive neighbor with connections) and on the receiving side of a malicious false police report… and that was a very, very bad experience that left permanent damage and destroyed any faith we had left in “the system.” Its the main reason we moved out of CA.
Our experience is no doubt different than yours, but I will tell you that race is not the only thing that gets you profiled. Being a 60ish white guy with long gray hair in an early 90s pickup or bronco will too. I never got pulled over in them, but after the 5th time my husband got pulled over in 10 months, and put on the curb, and sometimes cuffed while the drug dogs searched the truck, we figured it was a theme… it stopped happening when he cut his hair short. Profiling is alive and well in some areas even if you’re white. I know its different because my husband has the option to change his look, however he shouldn’t have had to. The law should work better than that. For him, and for you.
I tell you what we learned from all that… call 911 early. Even if there’s no crime to be reported yet, call anyway. First story, even if it’s not a crime, sets the narrative.
I lived in Colorado for a lot of years, some of it in Denver. I’d take the chance with the phone call while driving… if they pulled me over for it, the first thing the officer would hear from me would be “thank God you’re here officer! I’m on 911 right now because this guy threatened us, frightened my kids, and he’s been following us on the highway! I was calling 911 because we were afraid he would follow us home and he scared me a lot.”
If I got a ticket for calling 911 while driving, under threat, I’d be telling the same story to the judge, and asking for the 911 call to be brought as evidence.
Which foot the shoe is on matters, if you’re scared for your family get your story told first, even if you think it can’t be prosecuted as it stands. The system isn’t fair, but you can still do what you can with it.
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I opine you can absolutely count on a Red Flag bill to be abused. I do not, however, have a workable solution. Last century when working in primary care we tried to ID those who raised our index of suspicion with the goal of getting them to a specialist. The gun issue was not on the radar to the degree of current time. This issue does concern me from a historical prospective looking at other countries as examples.
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Red flag laws… Passing laws that might prevent what any able bodied person might do makes no sense. What next, do we take away a person’s car because they might speed next Friday and cause a wreck? What happened to innocent until proven guilty, and due process?
Here is a question I have not seen raised: What if someone gets red flagged, losses their guns, and then has a home invasion and is killed. And it comes back later, that there was no probable cause for red flag? What if a crazy ex wants to try to red flag his ex wife… Way too much can go wrong here.
Should be enforced like any other law. You break the law, you are punished. Now, can we maybe try to help people with issues, sure. But, if they can’t be trusted with a gun, why are they free in our society? And, how can anyone accurately predict what someone ''might" do?
Don’t get me wrong, these shootings are horrible. It hurts me to think of innocent people being shot like that. But, look at the number of shootings in Chicago, that are not mass shootings, look at drunk driving statistics. These shootings, as horrible as they are, are being sensationalized (in my opinion) to advance a gun control agenda. How many folks survive a 747 crashing? But, flying is safer statistically than driving.
I don’t know the answer, but red flag laws are NOT Constitutional in my opinion.
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This is one of the big fears for red flag laws… I’m guessing somewhere this has already happened. What if, for instance, a gal has a crazy ex, and she and her new husband have guns, with the intent to protect themselves. The ex, or someone he puts up to it, falsely red-flags the couple, their guns are removed, and now he’s free to go commit mayhem on then without fear. I don’t think that’s any kind of a stretch at all.
It’s one of the reasons I’m NOT a fan of red flag laws where there is no judicial intervention before the guns are removed. And in any case, there should be SIGNIFICANT penalties for false reporting.
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Please, use paragraphing it makes posts a whole lot easier to read.
Actually you are supposed to and encouraged to report road rage incidents and verbal assault is still assault. The best thing you could have done is use your phone cameras and record and report the incident.
https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/csp/report-aggressive-driver
Once he had followed you into the parking lot you also had a legitimate complaint for stalking that could have been added to your complaint.
Cops would much rather show up to investigate an incident like that rather than after it has turned violent and the hour or so he’d have spent with the police there before being released while being searched and grilled would have been at a minimum “educational”.
Glad it worked out ok for you.
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This is one of the main reasons that there needs to be clear statutory language that punishes those who falsely make such calls.
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Whether he has access to guns in the home or not someone like this needs to be identified, put before a judge, evaluated, and committed.
Schools have been one of the most neglectful spokes in the wheel of gov’t over the years when it comes to doing anything about recognized threats and instead of being more proactive, schools are becoming less proactive and less inclined to notify LEO’s when a clear threat has been identified.
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That’s the truth right there… We don’t Trust NOBODY!!! Unless you have some type of credentials that keep you accountable then we don’t speak or interact with you period. Sorry but not sorry you could be dying but or need help one false move in progress you can be suited for helping people. This is most wickedness time. In our family we ignore people at all cost to protect ourselves b/c we’ve had the police called on us some many times for being Black and simply driving in traffic sharing the community in apartment living. One good thing every single LEO besides the one’s from last month have all shook their heads asking themselves why are we here… Honestly I can admit they all have apologized for having to deal with this. Police Chief even came by our own home to personally apologize in person b/c these wicked people called the Police on my son and I waiting for my wife to come outside. We had our traditional native Israelite Garmets on going to celebrate the real sabbath! All b/c we look different that the world has ever seen before. Cops were mad cool, they asked me if I was armed I said yes I am concealing but never asked me for my credentials b/c all 4 cops including 3 cop cars knew this 911/call was BS. Funny you mentioned “Anonymously” I asked the Supervisor if they knew who contacted the 911/Call. They replied it was “Anonymous” smh Supervisor gave me that look and said Yeah with look like Yeah we know what you’re having deal with what it’s costing the City for false reports. Its beginning to piss Police agencies off. This world is crazier than science; the land of Babylon “Land Of Confusion”
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