Putting my 5.56 on hold for ShotGun!

Firearm Training
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In 2024- I am going to change up my training a little. I decided to put on hold 5.56 training for this year.

I decided to train with my A300 Beretta Patrol for self-defense and the what-if scenarios!!!

The Why: This is all theory-based.
If the threat is wearing body armor, I hit the threat with a 1oz slug; it will be enough to make the threat pause because of the force generated by the slug. My next two rounds will be 00 buckshot. I think 00 double-aught buckshot will hit the threat hands and parts of the upper body that are not protected with armor. Three rounds- already shot from 7 total rounds - the last four rounds are a slug, 00 buck double-aught, slug, and double-aught buckshot, and a slug on my Matchsaverz. If needed, I will transition with . 1911.45

I think, why not use my Shotgun instead of my 5.56? My Shotgun is accurate up to 50 yards- when in the hell, if ever, will I need to engage a threat from that distance? Yes, I know Shotgun is a hungry beast.

Let me know your thoughts-- I am too old to have hurt feelings, lol.

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I’m wanting one of these personally.

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Sounds like a solid plan, I have much the same set-up. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Ive been eyeballing a Gensis12 for a while. Garandtumbs frozen shotgun video this week has me rethinking that for a komrad though…

Genesis Arms

The Freezing Shotgun Test; What Shotgun Is Best When Frozen? - YouTube

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My opinion…I think it’s way too much thought and expectation to by like, if this, then that, and this round will be fired and hit them, and then that round will be fired and hit them…IDK.

Back and forth between slug and buckshot…that’s a big no from me. Pick one, KISS, go with it. You know what’s coming out, because it’s the only thing in there. Have the other on a side saddle so you can load it in and train select loading.

Thinking you will remember what round you have fired, and what’s next up, and shooting based on what’s up…I’m not seeing it.

For me that means it’s all buckshot, with a combo of buck and slugs on the side saddle. KISS.

Shooting to stop? Generally, take the standard for all firearms…assuming the full threat is shoot-able, aim high center mass. Doesn’t stop? Do your failure to stop drill and start shooting for for the eyebox or the pelvis your choice. Gun runs dry, reload it.

As for why not the shotgun, my answer for why not (5.56) better…shorter, lighter, better controls and ergonomics, better armour performance, substantially similar danger through walls (buckshot), higher capacity, more accurate/range, much faster and easier to reload (though unlikely to need to reload due to capacity)

But, if you can run that semi auto shotgun well, and you have buckshot and/or slugs in it, and you hit the threat, it’s almost surely going to be effective at stopping that threat, right now

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I can see the significance, if going with a long gun, rifle vs shotgun. I am very new to shotguns, but amazed by their versatility in ammo, and accuracy.

I used to be afraid of them, thinking it would kick too hard, but in reality, amazed how with some basic training, I can place my cheek on the stock when shooting with the stock butt end up against my shoulder, and the ease of use. With high visibility neon sights, not too bad.

I was even surprised by the sound, in that with my usual usage of firearms - the cartridge firing sound is piercing and loud, even with good ear plugs or headset protection. But oddly, for me, the shotgun sound is more muffled, with more bass, but less piercing, not as hard on my ears, but of course still using ear protection.

Good food for thought, thanks Buddha.

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There’s always misinformation out there.

A 12ga will knock you on your ass!

A Desert Eagle will flip back and smash you in the face!

IMB_E8GeON

If an 11yo can handle a .44mag, so can any adult who has been trained to do so!

I don’t have video of it at the moment, but my nephew (15 at the time) put all of us to shame shooting clays with a 12ga!!!

No gun is scary as long as you know how to handle it! :+1:

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My setup… I am adding a light once it comes in.

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My personal opinion is that you are over thinking things. Trying to manipulate what will occur if you shot one round and then another under stress would be very hard to determine. Both have their benefits and detractors. When I did tactical operations I was generally the guy with the shotgun. I had a stand off that could blow locks and door hinges off and it certainly could take a bad guy out.

I am assuming you are talking home defense here, so as much as I like the slug, I would suggest the .OO buck. It simply gives you more chances to hit the attacker. Yes, it may only be in the arm, but that will certainly slow them down giving you time for the next shot.

If someone with body armor is your concern, I would prefer the 5.56. Yes ,ceramic body armor can defeat the first, second and maybe third round of ,5.56, but with a 30 round magazine, you will eventually defeat it and all who have shot an AR-15 know how fast you can put 30 rounds down range. Additionally, your wife, girl friend and even kids can be comfortable with the lessoned recoil of the AR-15.

Why not train with both? Have both set up and ready to go. If you have a family to worry about, I would focus on training them with the shotgun. Easy to use and you just have to point it in the general direction at close range and you will probably score a hit. If they are intimidated by a shotgun, then go with an AR-15. Both platforms are effective as long as those that need to use them, train with them properly, are comfortable with them and train often.

Scott

Both can be effective, but no matter what, i would stick to one type of load so you don’t have to remember which one is coming up in your magazine or tube.

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Me and my wife have been practicing clearing our home, with our 300 blackout AR15 pistols! Sometimes it’s like being in the Army again! Hint, we do have other weapons, hidden all through the house!

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I recently got the same exact shotgun though I swapped the rail with a shorter plate so my Holosun can cowitness with the iron/plastic sights. It also lets me get a lower more solid cheek weld.

I had no intention of going the tactical shotgun route but since it was for a price I couldn’t refuse I figured I’d give it a try. At the very least it will be good for some three gun competitions. I must admit it is fun to shoot and would be an effective self defense weapon for most situations. But I’m not convinced it is a better choice than a semi auto .223 for most people in most situations. Especially if you find yourself in a situation where 8 shots aren’t enough. It takes a lot of training and practice to keep a shotgun topped off during a fight. I can imagine a few situations where I might need more than 8 shots but very few where I would need more than 30.

I personally wouldn’t go back and forth between slugs and buckshot. I don’t trust that in a high stress self defense situation that I could keep track of what shot was next in the tube. I keep mine loaded with buckshot with a shot card full of buck on the receiver and another full of slugs on the stock for if I need to go outside and shoot through car doors or at ranges longer than 30 or 40 yards.

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I like it!

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What to train with depends on why you own firearms the firearms you do. If it’s to feel secure in your home because you are afraid of roving gangs of hoodlums kicking in doors in your neighborhood, then time and money are probably better spent moving somewhere else than in training.

If, as I do, you believe the 2A was enacted to secure the ability of citizens to resist a tyrannical, out of control government, then training with firearms with military-like capabilities is probably in order. 556 over shotguns all day long in my book. My 2 cents.

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Without reopening the AR-15 vs. shotgun debate… I’m on the side of the AR. Won’t repeat the reasoning here. But I will say, my opinion is that you should train with every weapon you have, or you shouldn’t have it! And in the case of shotgun ammo, it’s particularly cheap (or at least it can be), so there’s really not an excuse to not train with it. Just cut back on the amount you’re spending on 5.56/.223 and allocate a little of that to your shotgun, but I wouldn’t give up one or the other. Or maybe alternate which one you take to the range. But if you have it, train with it!

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I agree 100%-- I have been training with my DD for years. It is the only AR15 I own. I have thousands of rounds and a ton of training courses with my AR-15. I will complete a full year of training with my shotgun, from training classes to range time. I want to be as proficient with my shotgun as with my AR15. But I think a shotgun might be a little better for civilian purposes. That is what I want to explore.

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That’s what I was taught Scott, One type shell (you choose) But .00 for Home D I heard was Excellent.
Once again, That’s just me. In a Fire fight there’s no way in heck I am going to remember what I shot last shell. Adrenaline’s pumping Brother, Keeping cool is the first priority, head in the game. Shot placement.
I have a (7) shot Mossberg myself, but Training with it I really prefer (30) .556 and my new Carbine.
Better around corner’s , Tight spaces. The chance of these bozo’s having Armor is slight.
Even the Friendly Border Asylum seekers are probably wearing just clothes.
But YOU have to do what feels right Budda, No one is going to fault your choices,
You’re the dude defending Home and Hearth!, YOU’RE the one pulling the trigger.
Be secure in your DEFENSE!
Rock the House Brother

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Yep! KISS is the rule in combat. Keep It Simple Stupid!

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what if you have multiple attackers? Your whole count is out the window. I agree with KISS, all slug or all buck. If you have the your sidearm eliminate the buck.

My humble .5 cents (can not afford the full 2 cents because of bidenomics).

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I don’t think that is a bad exploration. Though I would still at least make sure to do some minimal practice with the AR to keep those skills up to speed.

The one advantage I could see for the shotgun is that in some areas it might be viewed by anti self defense prosecutors or jurors as a more acceptable use of force than one of those scary looking semi auto rifles. Not a logical argument and a good defense lawyer should be able to explain the choice one way or the other but there is a small chance it could play a factor in perception and charges.

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That’s a valid point.

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