Putting my 5.56 on hold for ShotGun!

Great point!

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Find a range that has 3 gun matches. I’ve shot hundreds of stages with the shotgun, rifle and pistol in various sequences. You get proficient really quick, have fun, and it makes you reliant on them all as circumstances change. Check some YouTube’s on it. If you don’t have a local range that does this, maybe you have a shooting area where you can set up your own stages. Stay proficient on them all. If you don’t want to burn through all your 5.56, sub your .22 for practice.

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It seems that in a lot of those events competitors are going with load two or quad loading for shotgun reloads. I wonder how useful those techniques are in a self defense setting?

It looks a lot faster but I see some potential issues. Biggest one being it requires taking the shotgun out of a ready to shoot position which would be bad if you suddenly needed to take another shot while reloading. I think it would also be easier to flub up under stress of an actual self defense event than one at a time. And most of the carriers designed for the two/quad reloads don’t hold the rounds all that securely so they might fall out if you bump into someone/something or you lay on the ground to take a shot, etc. Then instead of grabing two or four you might end up with an unknown number in an imperfect grip or none at all.

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hence why i just opt for a magazine fed shotgun lol

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I’ve read several accounts of people with magazine fed shotguns having feeding issues after leaving their magazine loaded for awhile. The shells apparently deformed due to the pressure of being packed side by side instead of nose to tail. Have you run into this issue?

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Yeah, count me out of the entire magazine fed shotgun group. Give me a solid semi auto with a 7 round tube. I personally keep them loaded in a cruiser ready variation, load the tube fully, drop one shell out of the tube onto the lifter/whatever it’s called, safety on, empty chamber.

So the process is pick it up, rack one in, and it’s ready other than the safety is still on. That’s just thow I do home defense shotguns…can’t complain about 7 shells of buckshot on board + 4-6 on a side saddle, and it alleviates spring wear concerns because (even though static loading shouldn’t be a problem) the spring has the tension of being downloaded by one shell.

Unless I ghost load the one shotgun that can ghost load hehe then the spring is full compressed but GOOD springs that’s fine

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This is how I have been storing my new HD shotgun. I keep a spare buckshot shell next to it so I can top up the tube if I have time to do so after racking the slide. Mine can be ghost loaded as well but I likely wouldn’t take the extra time to do that unless I was expecting some unwanted company.

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I have an AR-15, a pump action shotgun, and a full size pistol, all set up for home defense. However, my “go-to” weapon is currently the pistol. This is mainly because I have been able to receive the most training with the pistol, and I am also able to practice with it the most. Also, my house and property are fairly small / compact, so the pistol is easier to retrieve and maneuver with.
I would like to incorporate my shotgun more into my HD plan, but I am probably the least comfortable/ proficient with this platform. I am retired military, so I have plenty of rounds downrange with the M-16 and M-9. I would like to get more training with the shotgun, but it seems that there aren’t many courses available outside of something really high end like Thunder Ranch or Gunsite. Also, a lot of local ranges aren’t as accommodating with running drills with a shotgun, as opposed to a pistol.

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can’t say I have seen this issue personally, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they were left in a hot environment with cheap ammo. I’ve seen the kalash12 10 round stick mags work fine after being loaded for several months with quality ammo in them, same for some of the 15 round drums. Cheap Turkish low brass #8s on the other hand, you may see this issue. Leave the same low brass crap ammo in a tube gun for months and it will mushroom on you just the same as you describe in the stick mags and cause feeding issues. Tube fed shotguns have their issues too. Watch the garand thumb video I posted further up in the thread. Tube guns don’t work in the frozen cold. The tubes freeze and won’t allow the shell trip to operate, and release rounds out of the tubes.

I don’t use shotguns for inside of structures due to most being absurdly long, so they have never been a staple of my home defense plan. Go do some room clearing with a 28" barrel wingmaster model and let me know how it works out for you lol

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I find room clearing with my 19 inch shotgun to be a challenge. Prefer my pistol or 300blk for going around tight corners.

I’m not sure what quality shells the people who were having trouble were using. Think their timeframe was more in the left them loaded for a year or longer range. I’ve left pistol mags loaded for over a decade and am now running the same test with some of my ARs. No issues so far.

I only have one defensive shotgun so I won’t be able to run the same test on it to see how long I can keep it loaded for without issues. On the frozen tube issue, was it a humid environment leading to moisture freezing up the works, change in how the parts fit due to the cold or the lube freezing? I read lots of stories from the Russian front in WW2 of soldiers having to change what they lubed their guns with to keep them from freezing solid.

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Yeah, i could see if you left them in magazines near a vent or something for a year or two that the plastic could eventually deform from heat cycling under pressure. I’ve seen the same with boxes of buckshot left in hunting trucks for 2 or three seasons. the couple of people i know with mag fed shotguns dont leave the magazines loaded for those extended periods of time, mostly just cycling through ammo due to modern shotgun ammo not generally being sealed for moisture intrusion.

The test was mostly specific to dealing with the conditions in the current trench warfare on the eastern front of Ukraine. They’ve been having bad bouts of freezing rain, and the Benelli style safeties would freeze to the receiver and the shell trip release in the tube would freeze in place. water based lubricants will do the same thing in sub 15 degree weather as well. the very large safeties on the AK platforms give you a lot of leverage, even if its frozen. The issue with the gensis 12 is that it uses a DPMS pattern AR10 lower receiver, and AR trigger controls are notorious for failing freezing tests due to the tight tolerances and small parts and openings and very poor leverage on the safety.

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I have the VR80, very easy to use. I need to practice more with it, Ive only used it at a box range with 50 rds.

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a lot of people have gone to useing the matchsaver style extra shell holder for that too, as well as carrying a breaching or non leathal there for use vs a buckshot round.

Shotgun Match Saver Shell Holder -The Firearm Blog

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As an aside, personally, I cannot imagine trying to have a “non-lethal” shell out of your shotgun that is normally and mostly loaded with very-lethal self defense rounds like buckshot.

To me this sounds like absolutely begging to accidentally (negligently) shoot someone with buckshot when you thought you were using a “non lethal” (less lethal)

It is for this reason the police departments I have seen use dedicated, color coded shotguns that are exclusively used solely with less-lethal ammunition, and said less lethal ammunition is then never used in a regular/buckshot/slug shotgun

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But I love that for the topoff round, or storing a shotgun empty chamber full tube and sticking one into the chamber.

I think I’m going to grab that concept and do the ghost load with a technically -1 tube (because that one is on the lifter) but have the one right there to slide back into the tube, time depending

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oh, I would agree. If I’m grabbing a shotgun the whole nonlethal aspect has gone out the window personally. Even then, we have seen several instances where LEO thought they were reaching for a Taser or other less lethal response and ended up drawing and using their actual firearm.

Kim Potter trial: Ex-officer found guilty of two counts of manslaughter for fatally shooting Daunte Wright | CNN

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We sure have.

I think that speaks well to the importance of having as much distinction and separation as possible between lethal and less lethal options.

This is one reason I personally don’t like the Byrna concept (at all).

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A shotgun is an awesome weapon and a slug is the finger of God! It all works well as long as you are the sole user. I’ve had multiple men come to me for HD shotgun training. I always ask if they are married and they usually say yes. Next question, will your wife be expected to use the same HD weapon if your not around or get incapacitated? Again, usually the answer is yes.

So I then tell them to bring their wife with them and I’ll train them both. And then they find out how ridiculously unsuitable for just about every woman is a full sized shotgun shooting full power SD loads. Even starting them with light target loads just about all of them hand the shotgun back after the first shot and say, NO thank you.

The same has NEVER happened with an AR…

Just a thought.

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I took a privite shotgun class at foxden. I asked serval question- Buck vs Slug hiting a bullet proof vest or plate carry.

A slug or buck to the chest with a person wearing vest no mater the rating -will stun them or even knock them on there knees from the sheer force. Slugs are for accurate shots and buck is mulple hits. “i am writing the obvious” I am using slugs all day.

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Shotgun slug into a plate at short distances will knock you on your ass. Shotgun slug to the heart area of soft body armor, no matter the rating, you will most probably die. Slugs, against body armor, are the way to go :+1:t2::+1:t2:

And for anyone reading this, for the love of God, get a decent sighting system on that shotgun. If I had a dollars for every person I’ve seen show up for shotgun training with a brass bead or worse, a hacked hunting barrel with no sights, I’d be rich.

Even at HD distances, using bird shot in a gun with no choke the pattern will not open up more than a few inches. You still need to hit what you’re aiming at and without sights it’s just spraying a praying with a gun of limited capacity.

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