In many respects it would be nice to have consistent laws across the US. Maybe not laws but the degree of the charge. I am lucky enough to have a choice on what states I travel, if there is any doubt I choose not go because laws can be so vague and it’s typically the law abiding citizens that get balled up in the legal battles.
Laws always have unintended consequences. For instance driving from MO to KY for work, I had to pass through IL. In IL If I had a license to carry I can have the weapon on my person, but couldn’t get out of the car. So I just made sure I enough gas and food so I didn’t stop in IL and I didn’t add to the economy of IL either.
I lived used to live in Wentzville, MO before we moved to KY. Loved to go Ultimate Defense in St. Peter’s, MO. Great people own the range and gun store.
Check out the story of Harold Fish. He was convicted of second degree murder for an act of self defense while on a hike. I believe that his conviction was overturned, but that was after years in prison and hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees. He was carrying a 10mm handgun loaded with Hydra-Shock ammo and the prosecutor agued that because this was such a powerful setup his sole purpose was to kill.
I think your best bet is to carry the same caliber and ammunition that the state police carry. This adds credibility to your argument that you are acting in self defense and only want to stop a threat.
This might be good for another thread. “Does caliber really matter?” My belief is that three quick shots, center mass, no matter what the caliber is will stop a threat or slow it down enough for you to retreat.
@WildRose, “Hollow Points” is one of the stupid laws we have to live with here in New Jersey which is why I was looking into the frangibles as my only other hope because technically, they are NOT Hollow Points and NOT Illegal… Yet. But get this, Hunters in New Jersey can use Hollow Points. They say that you can buy them and even keep them in your home but NO ONE will tell you that you can use them in your home for self defense and not get into legal trouble later. I am still looking into that. If I found out that I could I would gladly use them instead of frangibles.
This crappy state also has 10 round clip limitation and you basically have to be shot and on your deathbed before they give you a concealed carry permit. I can only defend my wife and myself inside my apartment.
I do understand your point of not doing the two to the chest and one to the head, however, I have heard of it. Just can’t remember where. I will focus on the USCCA’s Two center mass and then to the abdomen / groin if that doesn’t stop the perpetrator.
I alternate my EDC guns based on dress. My Glock 32 .357 Sig is stoked with 125 grain Speer Fold Dot, while my S&W Shield in 9mm is loaded with Federal 150 grain micro HST.
Outside of special Op’s it isn’t taught anywhere and if used in a civilian defensive situation it all but guarantees you’d end up bankrupt and/or in prison.
If you think the person you are being attacked by is wearing body armor aim for the groin. If you break the pelvis they instantly become immobile and if you hit the descending Aorta or any of it’s major branches the subject will be unconscious in around thirty seconds and expire within 2-3 minutes.
I think we would all support the principle of doing our best to keep everyone safe if we ever have to defend ourselves physically, but I also agree with @Zee about additional legislation as the only people it affects are those who are already law-abiding and trying to do their best already. (That may be a little rose-color glasses, but of everyone I know who carries, they all want to be as responsible as possible.)
I agree but there are also a whole lot of folks that don’t get any decent training and will always tend to just buy what’s cheap. That of course usually means FMJ’s.
EDTA:
Let me add. When I’m thinking of such things I’m not thinking of US, those that have dedicated a lot of years to training and becoming instructors.
I’m looking at the lowest common denominator types who make up the vast majority of the gun owning public who will probably never get any instruction at all or poor instruction at best from friends.
I am a firm believer in, its better to try to educate than legislate. Give a politician a dime and he will try to take $100.00. Lets try enforcing the 2000 (a number I just pulled out of thin air) laws we already have that cover the same thing and stop writing new ones (mostly just to get reelected).
Nope. This what we were recommended by our CCW instructor. He added, use ammo common to local law enforcement. If you are ever in court, and the choice of ammo comes up, “if it’s good enough for my local police officer, it’s good enough for me” goes a long way.
The “always use nickel plated cases” does to some degree.
Yes, it improves smooth feeding and ejection but I’ve never had anything temperamental enough gun wise to notice a difference myself.
Nickel plated cases are far more resistant to corrosion as well but unless you’re leaving your weapon loaded for years at a time again, the difference is negligible.
Other than that it seems pretty straight forward.
For the average self defender there is no upside to +P or P++ ammo with the vast majority of SD shootings taking place between arm’s length and 12’.
There’s a lot of logic in that but depending on your state and local jurisdiction it can also work against you since a lot of people tend to believe the police are issued and should carry “deadlier ammo” than what should be available to civilians.
If you are carrying any of the top five or ten recommended types by reputable sources however you should be in good shape.
I’ll disagree on no advantage to +p ammo. My carry ammo has a difference of 200 FPS in +p form over standard pressure. That adds more reliable expansion, to those 230 grain slugs.
All it really does is increase the likelihood of over penetration and increase muzzle flip. Factory standard bullets are designed for peak performance standard pressure and velocity.
I’ve shot a lot of both standard and plus P into big hogs and seen the results first hand at range/s from contact to over fifty yard/s.
I have tested several different defense rounds from various mfrs. Most of them perform very well with minimal difference in penetration, weight retention and expansion at 21’ into wet newspaper. The difference for me was the consistent performance of the PDX1 across all calibers tested and the price. I stocked up on them a few years ago when they were readily available. But, I can’t say any of the ones listed are really any better than the next, just know what your carry piece will cycle without a problem. Practice with defense rounds and be confident that your defense gun will have zero issues with your defense ammo.
Well you convinced me. I went to a jhp for carry. Not the most expensive type. Can’t see spending 25 for 20 rounds. Went to the less expensive. Should be good. I understand that military can’t use jhp. Something about hauge agreement of 1899? Unless U.S. military is using it in the 9mm