Only for defensive carry, not totally outlaw. It definitely has it’s place for practice and in some hunting situations.
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We can just disagree on that. There are endless better choices for self defense that mitigate the dangers of over penetration and something I didn’t mention which is ricochet which is much more likely with FMJ’s than a frangible or expanding bullet.
We are already held responsible for every round we fire by law where the bad guys are not, or at least don’t see it that way.
I’ve just never seen a good, fact or science based argument for keeping FMJ’s legal for self defense and the risk of negative unintended consequences when they are used as opposed to frangible and JHP’s is exponentially higher.
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Welcome to the community @Larry4. Have you seen ballistic tests on this specific ammo? I have and they show these rounds go through plywood, metal and clothing. Also, in my apartment scenario, which is where I will be defending from an intruder at about 15 to 20 feet, I believe that they will go through clothing. Also, this is New Jersey and it is getting warmer and more humid. If a perp is wearing heavy clothing then something is wrong with him/her and I will have to put more rounds into them. Then think about this… if the round did not go through his/her clothing for some reason, at 15 to 20 feet it is going to do some damage to them and I don’t think they will be moving much. Then the last thing is the single tap to the head, if they don’t stop. I don’t think that they will have heavy clothing over their faces. 
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I’ll buy a box and find out for myself. You don’t always have a face shot.
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I know, but that’s what they teach you. If your two to the torso doesn’t stop the intruder then put one to the head. If it’s nighttime, I’ll be lucky if I hit the torso much less the head. Maybe I’ll just wait until he is right in front of me. 
Let me know the results on the trial shots. I’d be interested if it is the same as some of the video tests I have seen.
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FMJ is good for the ranger
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Good question. I am not an expert by any means but I believe it depends on the caliber and gun someone uses. I typically carry what I train with Winchester JHP or personal protection, in .40 cal. I’ve had ammo and gun combos that didn’t feed well at all. Got a “great” deal on a .45 and .22 semiautos, 2 for 1. The .45 wouldn’t feed JHP. You get what you pay for, LOL. But it was a good learning experience.
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If it’s 1911 they don’t like FMJ. All you have to do is change the rump in the firearm. It’s easy to do, are take it to a Gum Smith.
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? For the range? I agree and mentioned that above.
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Eh? The 1911 was specifically designed for military FMJ ammo from it’s inception. Some required modification for JHP’s and wadcutters.
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I don’t know who is teaching that but your odds of being convicted of murder go up exponentially if that advice is followed.
Even in the most self defense friendly states a head shot is very hard to justify legally.
That is seen as a “Coup Degras” intentional kill shot in most jurisdictions unless it is shown the bag guy was in fact wearing body armor or that no body shots were penetrating the heavy clothing and entering the body cavity.
A few years back a pharmacist in OK was convicted of first degree murder because he’d had to reload and while the perp was on the ground he was still moving so the pharmacist then decided to shoot him in the face to “end the threat”.
A shot to the head will always be seen as an intentional kill shot by prosecutors and especially in a civil suit unless there was no other alternative.
EDTA to be clear here because this is very important.
Every respectable civilian, LEO, and Military Trainer outside of Special Ops that I know of teaches 3-5 round bursts (in quick succession) to the torso and teaches that head shots are for a last or only resort only in extreme circumstances. My experience as a student and trainer goes back to 1981 spanning civilian self defense, LEO, and Military Training.
Two to the chest and one to the head will find you very likely on trial for murder.
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See now, that’s the sort of data I like… better sample size. Have you used Golden Sabers? That’s what my hubby prefers but we don’t have the sample size you do.
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USCCA teaches hip/groin area as the secondary target if center-body mass shots dont work, as with body armor. bones, lots of vascular structures, and less quick or unexpected movement than the head, plus larger target.
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Re: outlawing FMJ for anything… Every restriction that is applied will inevitably lead to more restrictions. Most of them not reasonable. I’m definitely with @Dawn on this one… not interested in having any more legislation which can be migrated to punish the law abiding.
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I totally agree that there are better choices and people should use those better choices. However, I’m against any additional legislation based on “risk” of any sort as it will give a precedent to say that all ammo presents a risk to life.
In New Jersey hollow point ammunition is already illegal. 
People should use the best ammunition and get the most training they possibly can so they can be as safe as possible if they ever have to defend themselves.
My point was we don’t need additional laws that will make it even more difficult for responsibly armed Americans to defend themselves.
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Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated
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Yes this is the point I was trying to make, thank you. I’m a medical device engineer and risk analysis is a big part of what we do in designing devices. Risk analysis is the single most difficult thing we do. Even with trained experienced teams of engineers getting this right is truly hard brain bending work. Real answers often go against what people instinctively “know”, and the discussions can get animated because the very strong gut sense of what is risky is powerful if frequently wrong.
If its that hard for trained experienced logical engineers to get it right, I have zero hope that politicians with, or even without, an agenda will get it right. And once you add untrained voters influenced by the gun control lobby this can not go anywhere but wrong.
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In genera I agree with you but the outlawing of FMJ’s for defensive carry wouldn’t even be an inconvenience for us. Modern ammunition is good for decades and even if you carry vary high capacity semi autos like I do the cost for enough ammo to fill three sixteen round mag’s with high quality JHP defensive ammo is negligible compared to the safety benefits.
I’m a libertarian leaning conservative but this is an area in which I’d support such legislation. We already have numerous limitations on the types of ammo that are lawful to possess and use for various purposes and this one could actually provably save lives.
I don’t mind the disagreement though, it would be pretty boring if we all agreed on everything so just consider it food for thought.
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One of the dumbest pieces of legislation ever passed. Hollow points Save Lives and greatly reduce the risk off untended casualties.
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For me it’s not about that… it’s about the risk of encroachment of stupid, emotion driven laws that will be inched and evolved into something even more destructive.
You have to defend your person by not entering into risky transactions. Defending your legal rights is no different… outlawing any particular ammo for any particular use is a high risk transaction because it sets the precedent for outlawing ammo. And all the creeping restrictions that follow will be done by people based on emotion, not knowledge of the subject and good understanding of risk.
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